tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post826877022295868786..comments2023-10-15T10:39:20.908-04:00Comments on One Frum Skeptic: From the modern person's perspective...frumskeptichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-20830310635330471722008-05-19T23:36:00.000-04:002008-05-19T23:36:00.000-04:00o, well, that's ok. I'm sure it was a good one.o, well, that's ok. <BR/><BR/>I'm sure it was a good one.Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-73405665924958702032008-05-19T23:07:00.000-04:002008-05-19T23:07:00.000-04:00babysitter: I cannot find the walmart paper. :(babysitter: I cannot find the walmart paper. :(frumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-53741573711297942672008-05-19T19:45:00.001-04:002008-05-19T19:45:00.001-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.realistic viewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15068486298705897992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-90558501205563332572008-05-19T19:45:00.000-04:002008-05-19T19:45:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.realistic viewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15068486298705897992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-50832726422049408612008-05-19T19:44:00.000-04:002008-05-19T19:44:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.realistic viewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15068486298705897992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-10215496511308758062008-05-19T10:33:00.000-04:002008-05-19T10:33:00.000-04:00CRAZY STUFF link hereCRAZY STUFF <A HREF="http://consumerist.com/5009511/immigration-raid-reveals-meth-lab-at-nations-largest-kosher-meat-plant:" REL="nofollow"> link here </A>realistic viewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15068486298705897992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-55034536586365666712008-05-19T10:29:00.000-04:002008-05-19T10:29:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.realistic viewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15068486298705897992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-42160322659712835422008-05-16T16:39:00.000-04:002008-05-16T16:39:00.000-04:00oops, I meant never mind to my previous question. ...oops, I meant never mind to my previous question. Cause before I asked, if it was the gazzete link, but then I saw the new post and realized that it wasn't the link. I didn't mean never mind to the post/article. <BR/>In other words, no need to be sorry.Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-81510701711603298122008-05-16T16:33:00.000-04:002008-05-16T16:33:00.000-04:00yea..its a bit long... sorry.yea..its a bit long... sorry.frumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-43142952922372454112008-05-16T16:29:00.000-04:002008-05-16T16:29:00.000-04:00ahh I see now the post with the Forbes article. Ne...ahh I see now the post with the Forbes article. Never mind.Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-74749111248658635102008-05-16T16:27:00.000-04:002008-05-16T16:27:00.000-04:00Frumskeptic: Air pollution was another concept on ...Frumskeptic: Air pollution was another concept on the test, and I agree with you, I just saw it is kvetching, I didn't see a point in having to learn about how these corporations are polluting the environment and that we have to consume less otherwise its using up the resources...It might be part of believing that Hashem runs the world and He made it so that we can exist in it, and if they say 40% of oxygen is being used up, and that's from 6 thousand years already, then the other 60% won't get used up within 20 years. So there's no need to worry about Global Warming and all the Green stuff. <BR/><BR/>The forbed article, was the one from the Gazzete thing?Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-29540066346872207322008-05-16T16:23:00.000-04:002008-05-16T16:23:00.000-04:00babysitter: forbes article link posted in a new po...babysitter: forbes article link posted in a new postfrumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-70452682940970663372008-05-16T16:20:00.000-04:002008-05-16T16:20:00.000-04:00Babysitter: Something I learned, even before coll...Babysitter: Something I learned, even before college, is that college professors are never unbiased. They alwasy have this way of convincing you that Rich people are evil, and corporations hate poor-people. Its sad.<BR/><BR/>Half the stuff on wal-mart is nonsense. Liberals have nothing better to do. without kids its like "hmm, the dog is fed, its walked, I cleaned the bird cage, now what?" Oh yea, lets kvetch about Wal-Mart and big corporations and how they don't pay anyone!! b/c its either kvetch about wal-mart paying low wages or kvetch about how wal-mart is polluting the world. And, there are plenty that do that, but not too many professors know enough to discuss air-pollution.frumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-2640318574768543812008-05-16T16:11:00.000-04:002008-05-16T16:11:00.000-04:00Mlevin: ok, that makes sense. That is true. Frumsk...Mlevin: ok, that makes sense. That is true. <BR/><BR/>Frumskeptic:(Well my Phil professor only brought it up to show us the two sides. We actually had our final today, and I remember the essay question was about this, about social responsibility, not illegal immigration, but sorta the same idea with the working conditions and stuff. So Milton Friedman says that corporations are just for profit and there is the stockholder theory, where they only have a responsibility towards their shareholders. While R. Edward Freeman says there's the stakeholder theory, where anyone who has a stake in the company they have a relationship with and therefore have a responsibility to. So I agreed with Friedman that it isn't the corporations jobs to build play ground and take care of other social needs of the community, that that's what the government is for...so we didn't just learn left wing stuff, we learned stuff favoring corporations also)<BR/><BR/>its ok, don't worry about finding the article.<BR/>ahh I see now what you mean by danger.Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-27129386460471125192008-05-16T15:59:00.001-04:002008-05-16T15:59:00.001-04:00Babysitter: "The Sweatshops are in China, so I gue...Babysitter: "The Sweatshops are in China, so I guess that makes it better?"<BR/><BR/>I Am looking for an article I read in forbes (if don't post now, will after shabbos) about child-labor and low wages in India. Apparently it is inevitible... I didn't fully agreee, but its Forbes and they know what they're talking about, and as long as US corp's try to maintain it, we're atleast doing as best we can.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"I watched a video in my Phil class about Wal-Mart and it does seem to be bad, but then your right, its not within the US. "<BR/><BR/>You have to take into consideration your phil professor is a psycho-nut left-wing anti-large coorporation person. I wrote a paper for my cousin, used multiple sources, and it really isn't THAT bad. I'll try and find it.<BR/><BR/> "So if we are afraid that they are dangerous, then wouldn't the police or FBI take care of them like any other person that is dangerous? If anything because we are afraid that their dangerous we would take more caution to check them out. "<BR/><BR/>Thats the point, without a SS# or a visa, its as if they aren't here. How can our intelligence agencies track them? If they're here illegally its a safety hazard. Don't think the FBI doesn't try and go after them. Thats why people who smuggle illegals across borders get into deep trouble (dunno exactly what, but its major), and the illegals get sent home.frumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-35404199409296716492008-05-16T15:59:00.000-04:002008-05-16T15:59:00.000-04:00Babysitter - Yes, Jews weren't allowed into most c...Babysitter - Yes, Jews weren't allowed into most countries, but these people are not running away from oppression. In fact this country does give a refugee status to those who are running away from oppression. <BR/><BR/>Also, this country allows people to enter from debilitating conditions. My cleaning lady said that she has new neighbors, straight from Turzhikistan. It is so bad there that 54,000 children died last winter from lack of food and heat. So, good old USA issued extra visas/green cards to allow more people to come here. And these people did come, LEGALLY. <BR/><BR/>Those who are here illegally are breaking a law. Meaning they are criminals. We shouldn't defend them, we shouldn't provide them with schools and roads and police and fire department... We should throw them all out like they deserve.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-65377797775062129182008-05-16T15:52:00.000-04:002008-05-16T15:52:00.000-04:00Frumskeptic: I watched a video in my Phil class ab...Frumskeptic: I watched a video in my Phil class about Wal-Mart and it does seem to be bad, but then your right, its not within the US. The Sweatshops are in China, so I guess that makes it better?<BR/><BR/>Frumskeptic and Moshe: I agree with you, it should be done legally. Your right, its unfair for some to take the easy way out and come illegally, while the good people who are doing it legally have to wait forever. Its like that with a lot of things. Not just immigration. That's like if people are online at a supermarket and one person cuts in, then all the other people behind them who were waiting on line the right way now have to wait longer, which isn't fair.<BR/><BR/>Frumskeptic: So if we are afraid that they are dangerous, then wouldn't the police or FBI take care of them like any other person that is dangerous? If anything because we are afraid that their dangerous we would take more caution to check them out. <BR/><BR/>Just to be clear on all this, What happens in the US when they find an illegal immigrant? they send them back?Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-74520457492843261392008-05-16T15:45:00.000-04:002008-05-16T15:45:00.000-04:00child and babysitter,btw, my half-sister finally r...child and babysitter,<BR/>btw, my half-sister finally received a visa after 10 years while illegals are coming in every day!Ookamikunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01145237927656807738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-49089526816875247942008-05-16T15:39:00.000-04:002008-05-16T15:39:00.000-04:00Babysitter: I don't mean to be picking on you, I ...Babysitter: I don't mean to be picking on you, I just do not have that much time to respond to all the other comments (mostly geared to child..).<BR/><BR/>Most of the stuff you hear about Wal-Mart is totally exaggerated. There are no legal sweatshops in the US -and with all the investigation going on abotu wal-mart, there definitly aren't illegal once that wal-mart is involved with.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, About the illegals being occupied with their jobs... No, they shouldn't be here to begin with. My parents, as well as many of my friends parents, and even some of my friends had to go through immigration, and it sucked. THey had to work hard for their money...LEGALLY!<BR/><BR/>My shul's "mexicans" are all here legally..and our cleaning lady is here legally. <BR/><BR/>it seems that you and childish behavior tend to forget that many of the illegals are actually dangerous, and we do provide them with alot of funds. If this were from a solely economic standpoint, I would even consider making immigration and H-1 visa's easier to obtain, so that these people can come and work- but allowing them to remain here illegally and not persecuting them for coming here is terrible. Especially in the time of war when we have terrorists trying to blow us up ?frumskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02990363895869876238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-61799683333144429752008-05-16T13:51:00.000-04:002008-05-16T13:51:00.000-04:00"We are talking about people like you and me that ..."We are talking about people like you and me that just happened to be born in the wrong part of the house. Why should they have to stay on the toilet and not be allowed into the dining room."<BR/><BR/>Because this isn't their country, and the people of this country are entitled, through their representatives, to make the immigration policies that suit them.<BR/><BR/>Don't turn my dining room into a toilet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-77698038788936071842008-05-16T13:40:00.000-04:002008-05-16T13:40:00.000-04:00Moshe: I've never really had to shop for meat, or ...Moshe: I've never really had to shop for meat, or if I did I just bought it without looking at the prices, so I dunno what the price is supposed to be. But sounds good to me.Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-18914672003000508172008-05-16T13:38:00.000-04:002008-05-16T13:38:00.000-04:00babysitter,family pack of lamb stew is $3.50/lb th...babysitter,<BR/>family pack of lamb stew is $3.50/lb though hard to catch.<BR/>meat with bones, often has flanken there, $3.99/lb<BR/>Friday afternoon most meat is $1 off, $3.99/lb meat is $.50 off.<BR/>cheap chicken thighs usually.<BR/>bread, seltzer and a lot of other stuff cheaper than mountain fruit.<BR/>pretty good specialsOokamikunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01145237927656807738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-43020455614585546082008-05-16T13:28:00.000-04:002008-05-16T13:28:00.000-04:00frumskeptic: I sorta agree with you, one the conce...frumskeptic: I sorta agree with you, one the concept that Jewish people shouldn't be taking advantage of the laws. Jews shouldn't be treating workers horribly and stuff. <BR/>But this reminds me of a Wal-Mart case. Its the same type of thing, they pay their workers minimum wage. But they have sweat shops and other horrible ways they get to sell their stuff for lower prices. But yet, there are still many Wal-Mart's around and people still buy there. <BR/>Plus they said that Iowa was a deserted place beforehand, and now they built up the place because of the factory. Also, isn't it better that the illegal immigrants are kept busy with jobs rather than stealing and causing other harm. <BR/>Child ish behavior brought up a good point, that we aren't supporting them with are taxes. Once illegal immigrants come, they are still illegal and therefore do not deserve what is legally required for others. Like if someone makes a contract with another person to steal a car. Stealing a car is illegal and therefore the contract is void. So same here, the immigrants came here illegally therefore the we shouldn't have to pay them minimum wage and stuff. <BR/><BR/>Moshe: I thought Glatt Mart had expensive prices. But I did hear they have good quality. I actually know the person who works behind the counter in the meat department. <BR/><BR/>Mlevin: that is a good point. <BR/><BR/>What if we put ourselves in their shoes? This reminds me of after the holocaust, Jews weren't allowed into certain countries. Now when things were horrible in Europe and Jews couldn't escape, wouldn't it have been better if they were allowed into other countries.<BR/><BR/>But this whole discussion is in a way hypothetical. Because first the issue was the unfairness of the illegal immigrants being paid below minimum wage, as if there is care for the immigrants. Then it became how its unfair how the immigrants are taking away from our resources.Jewish Side of Babysitterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792110478994916775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-53771529601956813712008-05-16T13:10:00.000-04:002008-05-16T13:10:00.000-04:00Muslims too? Or only Mexicans?Muslims too? Or only Mexicans?Ookamikunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01145237927656807738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3683171330083869803.post-77819353429054304502008-05-16T13:08:00.000-04:002008-05-16T13:08:00.000-04:00David: you'd be right if we were talking about rea...David: you'd be right if we were talking about real aliens from outer space. We are not. We are talking about people like you and me that just happened to be born in the wrong part of the house. Why should they have to stay on the toilet and not be allowed into the dining room.Originally From Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05927411127491577903noreply@blogger.com