Wednesday, August 26, 2009

Text Message

I received a text today which read:
Emergency. Please say tehillim for dov Yisroel mordechai ben chaya sara he is in trial now to get sentence to a terrible prison! Thank u"
I responded and asked "who is he and what was his crime"

She responded "I have no idea."

To which I said "and how do you know he isn't guilty and deserve it?" (and I gave her an example of the frummies arrested a few weeks ago)

And she goes "I feel bad for those people and I will pray for them. They tried to do good but it turned out bad. I'm not judging"


"they tried to do good but it turned out bad?"...

Since when was that in the story? I haven't heard anyone say the intentions were good.
I heard the Rabbi's were lied too. But not "tried to do good"
I don't fathom what it is about defending wrongdoers.

The FBI was on this investigation for about 10 years
The FBI is full of highly intelligent people.

I think its safe to conclude that the FBI is most definitely correct on this.

I don't even understand why we should feel for these people. If anything these people should be used as a life lesson (especially if one does not have a fear of Hashem)"hmm... if I steal, maybe the FBI will see me, and catch me, and then put me in jail."


BrooklynWolf said...

I'm confused. If she had no idea who the person is or what his crime was, how does she know that he "tried to do good and that it came out bad."

The Wolf

frumskeptic said...

it was probably just a forward. and instead of asking who and what, she just forwarded it again.

and she just wanted to judge favorably, instead of actually questioning anything

%Shocked% said...

Hmm.. I hear your point. I also completely agree that those who are guilty should be punished appropriately.

Maybe, one reason why we say tehillim for people like these, who are definitely guilty (assuming they are, I have no idea, but as you said,the FBI is full of intelligent people), is because we want a fair punishment meted out to them. Are they in the wrong? Yes. Do they have to pay for their crimes? Definitely. However, there is no doubt that our justice system is corrupt. When a serial child rapist is sentenced 12 months in jail, something is very very wrong. We daven that the sentence fits the crime; we daven that the chillul Hashem is limited and doesn't have repercussions for those who are innocent (i.e. us); and we daven when we don't know what to do. There's nothing we can do for these people. We don't know all the facts. We don't how strong the case the FBI is making actually is. We know what the media is telling us, and how often is the
media accurate about anything?

Maybe we should judge favorably..

Moshe said...

Shocked, that's not what frummies say tehillim for. Would be good if it was, but it's not.

Frummie response to stealing, "oh, they were just doing it to feed their family", "it was money for the shul/yeshiva", etc.
Frummie response to molestation, "she/he is lying!".

Little Sheep sent a letter to Yated with her story and contact info. Guess what happened. They reworded the letter to sound like she was "physically abused" instead of molested and took out by whom. And they removed the contact info because, hazva shalom, all the "liers" find each other. They also lied about contact info being taken out because she requested it when she specifically asked them to print it.

frumskeptic said...

shocked- I see your point, but you have to understand who you're dealing with. As moshe said they say:

"oh, they were just doing it to feed their family", "it was money for the shul/yeshiva", etc.

I think this text message just proves that. As it is the girl was defending a person she has no idea about even what crime he committed.

%Shocked% said...

There's plenty of devil's advocate to be played here but there's no point.

> As it is the girl was defending a person she has no idea about even what crime he committed.

What does she lose by davening for such a person? Hashem's going to say her tefillos are useless because it was for a rasha (assuming that he is one)? When you get a forwarded text message that says 'please pray for A son of B'- do you know who A is? There's a reason why he's sick. He's obviously meant to suffer for some reason. Maybe he deserves it. It's not our job to judge others, leave that to Hashem. We don't know just how guilty or innocent this person is, and it's not for us to know. No one loses anything by saying a few words on his behalf. He'll get his punishment be it from Hashem or the justice system.

For those people who are making such asinine remarks, agreed, they're idiots. You can't break the law, end of story.

The Yated thing is wrong in my opinion but I'm sure they have guidelines that they follow when it comes to these things. Why her contact info wasn't printed is beyond me, but go find the editor and speak to him yourself.

Moshe said...

Here's the post.
And read the comments too.

and about the email address thing...obviously, that's not the issue, as they have printed many email addresses for all sorts of people. for someone who was trying to start a support group for other types of mental health issues-NO PROBLEM! for a cancer patients support group? NO PROBLEM! for people who found things they'd like to return, people who lost things, people looking for information about dead relatives...NO PROBLEM! but when it comes to sexual abuse (note that the word "sexual" does NOT appear in my letter), it's suddenly not ok...

Moshe said...

Oh, and one of the commenters called and specifically asked if there was contact information and was told that there wasn't any.

%Shocked% said...

I read all of the comments on the blog and agree wholeheartedly with those advocating exposure such matters to children so they should be aware of the dangers.

A friend of mine forwarded me this link (Sorry, never learned HTML. I have no idea how to make a hyperlink unless the button is there for me lol.) It deals with the more general topic of education and not sexual abuse or anything along those lines, but one can extrapolate from the words and arguments delineated that it would probably apply here as well.

I would think that something could be done about it... No? Is it really that impossible? What a sad sad world we live in if nothing can be done :(

Moshe said...

Never learned HTML? It takes 30 seconds to google how to do links, don't be lazy!

The same people who scream for release of criminals, accuse sexual abuse victims of lying. When the abuser is a prominent figure, he gets protection from people above him too, while the victim is threatened with excommunication. Something can be done, but most frum people don't have the balls to do it.

%Shocked% said...

Sheesh! Fine lol. Let's see if this works :p..

Are our Children Too Worldly

Fingers crossed :)

What jaded views of Jewish people we all have. Are there any honest, good, holy people out there??

It is so depressing to assume otherwise.

%Shocked% said...

I'm a genius :P

Now I'm going to learn the rest of HTML lol.

Moshe said...

Yes! One of my former employees is a very nice and honest guy, unlike your typical frummie businessman. Though for that reason he ends up making a lot less money and working a lot harder.

word verification: kicks

Lvnsm27 said...

We should deffinately improve ourselves because that's what we are here for, to work on self growth and continue going forward. And if we make a mistake, we should take responsibilty. But Just like we don't want people to shun us away, we shouldn't shun others aways also. We should balance between feeling for others while teaching people to take responsibilty and be careful.

Moshe said...

Except those people don't consider what they did a mistake.

David said...

Typical. There seems to be an inclination among a certain set of frummies to treat the arrest of a frum criminal as an injustice on the part of the authorities. One even hears terms like "pidyon shevuyim" bandied about, which is pretty outrageous under the circumstances.

Lost And Not Yet Found said...

I agree with this post. The benefit of the doubt is stretched a little to thin imo.

%Shocked% said...

Have any of you read the news in the last couple of weeks? They've been going on for weeks how the "almighty" FBI managed to completely bungle the Madoff investigation, which was "under investigation" for more than 10 years. Yet, they messed it up. Why is it so hard to believe that they made mistakes in this investigation as well? There are corrupt people and idiots in the FBI as is clear from the Madoff case, who's to say that it didn't happen here?