Monday, January 28, 2008
Human beings are creatures of habit. They adapt to everything. If they are in pain, they adapt to it. If they are in constant states of pleasure, they end up adapting to it. People, throughout history have been this way. I do not see why now we have Rabbi's saying that we are not ready for Moshiach. Due to the phenoma of human adaptation, I doubt that modern day Jews are anymore "comfortable" then those in previous generations. People make themselves comfortable, its how Hashem created them and its almost ridiculous to blame them for it; and constantly trying to make them cry about being in golus, anymore than they already are(fear of antisemitism, death, uncertainty) is ridiculous as well. Therefore the argument, that Jews today, are any less prepared then they were beforehand, due to their "comfort" level is just unnacceptable.
Another argument used to "prove" we are not ready for moshiach is that majority of us do not have packed luggage for when moshiach does arrive. There are two flaws with this argument. The first is that it is infact a lack in emunah to Hashem if we do have the suitcase packed, and the second is that a suitcase is actually a "comfort" of ours.
The fact that one packs a suitcase, and constantly keeps it with him, actually proves that one has no faith in Gd. If Hashem were redeeming us from galus, on iron eagles, would it be too complicated for him to dress us as well? Would the eagle have "baggage claim"? I mean its almost ridiculous to think that our clothes would even matter. Imagine you took the subway to work that day (so the fact you keep the suitcase in the car doesn't matter), and you hear the shofar blown, will you say "Meet me back by the house, I need to get the luggage?"
Then, there's the issue of the luggage having clothes in it that in actuality are part of what we would deem as "comfortable". Not necessarily in the "pajama" sort of way, but for example, I would imagine, in this suitcase, one would pack shabbos/simcha clothing. While the intentions would be all good and nice, wouldn't that clothing only represent what was considered "shabbos/simchas clothes" during galus. Wouldn't packing infact show that we're trying to take a part of our "comfort" with us? It's our comfort in today's society that allows us to have a certain fashion sense, by packing this type of clothes, we are taking this comforting "style" with us.Why would that even be necessary?
I can even go further so far as to say how its actually selfish for us to pack. As American Jews, we have it pretty good. Our shabbos clothes is probably way nicer than anything Jews from other parts of the world would be able to bring with them. Not only that, the fact that we constantly are able to have something packed, is more than other Jews can say for themselves. How selfish, and therefore materialistic of us, is it to have things packed and prepared and blame others for not packing as well?
Do I think we're ready for moshiach? I don't know. I haven't really thought that much about it. But if those are the only arguments frummies have to offer on why we aren't ready, I think they need to think again, and stop blaming everyone for just being human!
Sunday, January 27, 2008
John Locke was an English philosopher, and he said that children are born "tabula rasa" or "blank slate". In the frum community, the kids are born in a "game state." And with a status already. If their parents are "modern" they are on the bottom, and need more room to grow. While, Locke meant, "blank slate" as in behavior or good/bad of the child, the frum community, tends to label the child in the "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" slate. As in, the behavior of the child, is already pre-determined by parents, schools, camps and bungalow colonies the parents will choose, as opposed to the natural curiosity that encourages children to ask questions, which encourage them to act in their own matter, based on the responses they are given to these questions.
The "game state" the children are in, has multiple parts. The first part ends with "marriage". In order to "win" or "complete" this part, one has to finish school (all grades up to 12th) with good merit (no suspensions). Then, the child needs to complete one year of study in Israel, or an institution somewhere else with an Israeli name (such as Ma'alot) so that one can conveniently forget to mention they were not actually studying in Israel. After the year of seminary is completed, that is when the game begins to enter bumpy waters. In order to get married, one must be referenced. Referencing determines if the girl/guy went to the "right" school, for the potential shidduch to go through. If what the parents determined as the "right" school, bungalow colony, camp, seminary/yeshiva, and shul with the "right" hashkafa does not "fit", then the shidduch is deemed not shayach and is thrown out the window (probably literally with all the pollution in frummy neighborhoods). Making sure everything is "right" is also part of the game, and unfortunately for many people, it's the parents that make these decisions for them. Some girls, in Prospect for example, may "frum up" in Israel, and come back deemed "wrong" for the type of guy they now decide they want. Or a girl from B"Y of Boro Park, may develop brain capacity, and realize that kollel isn't for her, and then be deemed "too frum" for the guys who are actually not yeshivish. The "game state" does not take into consideration that life, is after all, NOT a game, but rather tends to ignore that very interesting scenario. If a girl, for example, from B"Y decides she does not want what was deemed "right" for her by her school, which her parents chose, she then has to marry a guy with the same background (ie, went to all the "right" schools, and decided kollel was, infact, not right for him) as well. This method is very simple, because it all adds up to an easy matching game. This method also prevents frummies from really looking at life, as more than a mere "game." The occasional free-thinkers, that actually would marry BT's or those from different backgrounds, are those who tend to be seen as the "meshugas" in the system. They are unexplainable, or just "settlers" (people who were "desperate", and had to look "outside")
The ultimate end of the game, is death. The game is like this never ending cycle of children, shidduch, grandchildren, shidduch, great-grandchildren, etc. The game is almost pathetic to think about, but unfortunately, it is the the unspoken existence of the frum community. While, I do feel that marriage should be an important goal in life, I feel it is more than just a game of "match" in "compatibility" that parents put their children through, but rather, a "match" that should be taken seriously, and not just about school and seminary information. Life is more than just a game, and until frummies realize it, they'll be blaming their problems on "crises" that do not exist. Sorry, but your kid is probably NOT at risk because they were friends with their secular neighbor, but because they don't want to find themselves in a loveless "compatible" marraige, where the only thing they have to discuss is finding the "right" schools for their kids...
Saturday, January 19, 2008
We were extremely inspired by the comments of "Can't Wait to Hear From You" in last week's Readers Write, concerning the attitude of some bochurim and their parents towards out-of-town girls. We were particularly taken with her suggestion that a takana be made "that out-of-town boys can't go out with in-towners. Or maybe this could be added to the list of money incentives."
Quite frankly, we think this is an astounding idea - money incentives do seem to work wonders - but it doesn't go far enough! After discussing the matter with at length, we have hit upon what we think, b'aniys da'ateinu, might very well be a solution. We would like to present the rudimentary outline to the readers of the Yated, and we hope that with everyone's two cents, we will be able to modify it further.
We think that every bochur of shidduch age should be required to open an account in a central shidduch registry. Every time the bochur goes on a date  he will accrue a certain amount of Shidduch-Bux (TM) on his account in the central registry. The number of points will be determined by the committee in charge of the registry, but the general outline is something like this:
In-town (Brooklyn, Queens, The Five Towns, etc.) girls are one point.
Monsey, Passaic and Lakewood girls are five points. 
Los Angeles and Miami girls are five points. 
Chicago girls are five points. 
Baltimore, Silver Spring, and all other drivable locations are ten points.
All other locations are to be given at least fifteen points. Finer distinctions can be hammered out by the committee, using different criteria.  Different out-of-town communities are encouraged to approach the committee and plead their individual causes. 
The more Shidduch-Bux (TM) a bochur accrues, the more he will eventually be worth once he finally gets engaged- when Shidduch-Bux (TM) will be redeemable for a wonderful selection of merchandise! At a to-be-determined ratio of Shidduch-Bux (TM) to dollars, chassanim who have lots of Shidduch-Bux (TM) can take home various prizes such as a seforim schrank, and iPod loaded with Shas, a silver esrog box, etc. If a bochur has the misfortune to date for a while, and if he restricts himself to really far out-of-town girls, he might even collect enough Shidduch-Bux (TM) to buy a townhouse in Lakewood!
We would like to point out that this system is not predicated on a bochur marrying an out-of-town girl, but merely dating out-of-town girls.
We know that some of you are thinking that this system won't work. The travel costs to get to all those out-of-town girls will outweigh the benefits of dating them, you say. Rest assured, though, that the bochurim won't have to travel-the girls will come to New York.
Obviously, there are many flaws in the system. However, we think that it is at least the beginning of a solution. We invite the readers of Readers Write to respond to this letter with further modifications.
Yours Very Sincerely,
Can't Wait To Hear From You, Either
 This can, ofcourse, mean a sit-in, as well
 Although these areas are generally considered to be 'in-town', we have heard numerous references to their being considered "G.U.," or Geographically Undesirable. From what we can ascertain, this is related to the unfortunate fact that these areas require long-ish journeys by car and a person might have to use a restroom. This concern applies to both the bochur going on a date and also to potential einiklach going for Yom Tov years from now. Some of you might pooh-pooh this, but we have heard it expressed as a negative by potential shidduchim often enough that we feel these girls deserve more points.
 Although these require a plane trip, we have heard that many people do not mind the prospect as they consider it a vacation to a warm and sunny climate.
 Although Chicago is far from warm and sunny, many in-towners are under the misimpression that everyone in Chicago owns a nursing home, and so it might be worth someone's while to travel a little if it means their son can shteig without worrying.
 For example, the fewer kosher eateries, the more points. No kosher pizza places equals an automatic extra three points.
 The point system will be inapplicable in certain situations. For example, any potential out-of-town shidduch whose last name is familiar to many in-towners due to its appearance on a mosad, and ArtScroll publication, the Yated, etc. will not cause a bochur to accrue any Shidduch-Bux (TM). See Footnote 4.
Friday, January 18, 2008
Wednesday, January 16, 2008
Her coworker, a fellow "Russian" BT, saw my mom prepare her morning coffee. Like most people, my mom pours the coffee, then adds the milk and sugar. This morning, not thinking twice about it, she started doing the same thing, she poured in the coffee, then was about to add the milk, and her fellow Russian frummy says something like "You can't use an already open milk container. If a frum Jew did not open it, you cannot drink from it, or touch it."
My mom, being a nice person and all, just replied with a "huh?"
The lady continued "Yea, its true. Also, if you come back later, you can't drink the milk from the carton you opened either, because you don't know who touched it since then."
Is it just me and my mom, or do others view this as ridiculous? I mean, this is definitly not an issue of chalov stam vs. chalov yisroal! It sounds more like an issue of mevushal/non-muvashal wine laws, somehow applying to milk. I definitly do not remember learning the halachos of milk containers, but I do know, that I do not rememebr learning that milk cannot be touched by goyim. Am I missing something, or is this really retarded?
Monday, January 14, 2008
The other day, she was over at my house. We happened to get into a discussion over the content in the Yated (A letter I wrote was published) . After I told her what my letter was all about (she cannot speak english, so I had to translate), she (apparently the all beknowest one) declared that I should send in more letters, because then they may offer that I become a regular columnist. I told her, that the Yated isn't exactly my type of newspaper, and that I already did write them a letter, that they didn't agree with, and so they did not publish it. She asked me what that letter was about. So I had to explain the financial "crisis" and how I wrote a letter stating that kollel was to blame. I had to explain Kollel to her.
Oy vey!! My grandmother went insane at the explaination.
"You know, if you bring a boy home like that, your dad would kick him out of the house"
"Why would someone have so many kids, and then NOT work ?"
My favorite, was when she told me to rewrite a letter to the Yated, stating, that "my dad works, and he is a good man. He comes back from work, and is in shul all the time [to my grandma it seems that way]. He also learns, and more people should take him as an example. Men are supposed to work. And all the people encouraging men to be lazy are really harmful and hurtful to the women who now have to cook, clean, do laundry, and work to support everyone, on their own."
I couldn't help but laugh, because its adorable (for lack of a better word) to hear something like that come out of her mouth. She also often pretends to be "feminist." I love my grandma, and her "outsider" point of view on Kollel is just so much fun to think about, especially since I agree. :)
I did try to explain to her that all those arguments were already thrown around thousands of times, and people just do not care. She got annoyed, and assured me that if I rewrite the letter, but talk about my dad (like she said ) they would surely publish it.
I don't think she realizes that this goes beyond my father being a "good man."
Even though alot of the company is comprised of frum people, there are still plenty of goyim employed by the company. And because the kosher wings, tend to have feathers on them, one of the girls freaked out, and couldn't eat them. She made just about everyone in the room laugh when she declared "I can't eat the chicken with the hairs!" I found that most amusing, since I actually became frum, because of issues I had with treif food (after reading a portion of The Jungle by Upton Sinclair). I tried to explain to her that kosher chicken has "hairs" because after the chicken is shected, it isn't thrown into boiling water (so the feathers come off), but actually undergoes a healthier cleaning process. For example, Kosher chicken cannot be boiled once it is killed, because that would mean it boils in its own blood, and would then mean that the diseases (if any) the chicken has, would remain in the chicken, and would not be cleaned out. With kashrus, though the "hairs" remian, the chicken is soaked and salted, which actually kills the diseases. Not only that, since the slaughter process of treif chicken, is commercialized, the chickens are boiled all TOGETHER after they are killed. Therefore, if just ONE chicken has a disease, its blood is cooked with all the rest.
So anyway, if any of you are at an office party (or at a business meeting)serving kosher food, you can give this explaination to you fellow goy. However, it may not be worth the explaining. I just found it amusing how she said chicken had hairs. And so did many of my fellow work "buddies". :)
Sunday, January 13, 2008
This article talks about twins that were adopted by separate families at birth, and then got married to each other years later, not knowing they were brother and sister. The entire time I was reading this (after the initial "eww") I was thinking "this goes beyond Dor Yeshorim!"
The story is about a lady (my friend knows her personally) who was engaged, and could not afford a big wedding. It took alot of thought and creativity, and she managed to throw a wedding for $3000. She managed to do this, by getting herself either a very cheap or free hall, through a connection she had (knew owner). Then, instead of hiring a caterer, she bought food, which she and 12 other girls got together and cooked. And her dress was cheap, because it was from a gemach.
When I heard that this girl managed to throw a wedding for herself for only $3000, I was seriously shocked and very impressed. While,I understand that not everyone is capable of having the same connections enabling them to get a hall for so cheap, it still is something to strive for. I don't see the hype in a hall anyway. Wouldn't a nice, outdoor wedding be super romantic? Why not just invite half the people, and borrow the backyards of one of your close friends. Hey, I'd let you use mine (not that it's big). I'm sure that plenty of people wouldn't mind sharing! Heck, if someone asked me, I'd probably pay for her hall just because her budget were only $3000. I'd probably also help her cook if she needed me to! All because I'd be super happy that she didn't feel like she was "owed" a live band and silk tablecloth.
Anyway, this story made me realize, that I shouldn't be so negative about hachnosses kallah, but only negative about the people that take advantage of it, by throwing themselves overpriced, luxury weddings, at OTHER people's expense!
P.S. No matter how cheap, I'd never allow a kollel couple to be funded by hachnosses kallah! You don't want to work, you don't even deserve free backyard usage from a friend!
Wednesday, January 9, 2008
I do not beleive that tuition is causing the crisis, I beleive it is ignorance that is causing it. My incredible idea is that in order to end this "crisis" people should just send their kids to public school (for those that really could not afford it). I know I will get attacked for this, but I need you to realize that it is actually UNcommon for girls to lose their virginity at 14. Scenarios in which Monica sleeps with Josh because she has a crush on his best friend, and "wants to be noticed" are actually not the norm. I know this may come as a shock to some of you, but yes, even public school girls are decent.
Secondly, there is this thing called a "clique." Cliques are usually formed by many, based on social compatibility and alikeness in character and future goals. Therefore, even if public schools were one gigantic dirty soap opera, like frummies would like to beleive, all the frum kids would form a clique and not have anything to do with the fact that Monica slept with Josh. Therefore, any "bad influences" would end at "clique walls."
My point is, that if it is decided that public school is decent (based on my oversimplified model of it) then, there is no reason why tuition is to blame for the crisis. It is no longer a "necessity" to pay it, therefore it cannot be used as the scapegoat for peoples terrible personal economic choices. There are always options against tuition (public school, homeschooling) that tuition cannot be blamed.
Then there is camp. Paying for camp, even if you are rich, is possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever hear about. Over shabbos a friend of mine was over and she told me me how much her parents paid for her to go to Sternberg Pioneers. Honestly, it is now 4 days later I still cannot get over how messed up people must be to pay that much for their kids to live in a tent, and then have the AUDACITY to complain about not being able to afford tuition. I'm sorry, but your daughter wants to "rough it" to prove she isn't a snob, send her to my backyard, pay me half the price! I'm sorry, I can't even say "no offense" because really now, I AM offending you, and I don't care. You're ridiculous! My backyard, over the summer, $1500 for 3 weeks. You agree poineers is ridiculous, and agree camps should have decent living conditions? Fine, then, you can send your kid to my house. She wont live outside, but INSIDE; $2000 for 3 weeks. We have a cleaning lady, great food, and I'll even hire a moshgiach for those wary of the kashrus of someone who thinks so low of the frum community.
Looky here, problem is solved, can't blame camp anymore! Now our "crisis" seems like no longer a crisis of economics, but a crisis of bad financial choices. Read financial newsletters, or is that to goyish?
Yea, so I'm obviosly a bit peeved at all the looney's in the community. Seriously people, how about if I choose someone to blame. I blame Kollel. No wait, I cannot do that, because there are many many ways to not blame kollel. We can, after all, take into consideration that there ARE timezones. Time zones ensure that there is always someone learning Torah. There are also Rebbeim, and shuirim, and people reading books. Torah learning is ALWAYS going on, and therefore, (as much as I hate kollel) even Kollel cannot be blamed for the financial "crisis". There are many solutions to the fact that able-bodied males are sucking the system dry, and many of them have to do with sending these guys to work. Yes, WORK! Once the "Gadolim" finally agree that the end of this kollel madness will not cause another Hurricane Katrina, we will have a foundation to finally getting money back in our pockets.
Yes...so I think this whole crisis is not a crisis at all. People need to stop kvetching, get their gigantic gefilte-fish stuffed butts up and DO SOMETHING about their situations!
Monday, January 7, 2008
The logic goes something like: Because it is normal for soldiers to rape and the IDF soldiers do NOT rape, they must therefore be racist.
Brilliant, I know. I bet this researcher would be far from "pushing rocks up hills" in my fantasy world.
Wednesday, January 2, 2008
No doubt my handwriting is more legible. I have cutesy handwriting (when I'm not rushing), that took me years to perfect. I went to a psycho public school where penmanship was practically a class in and of itself. However, his assumption that my handwriting is "bubbly" is false. His assumption is probably based on his observations of just about every frum girl in the universe...big bubbly letter handwriting. Its like a uniform code. If everyone dresses the same, it will prevent any form of personality development and individuality, same with handwriting.
Handwriting analysts have discovered that handwriting can tell alot about the type of person the writer is. By having a standard, stereotype handwriting amongst frummies, just shows how unbelievably "cookie-cutter" the society we're living in is. I think thats kinda sad.
Frumskeptic (12:07:52 AM): i started a war
Frumskeptic (12:07:56 AM): im so proud of mysefl
heathensRUS (12:10:14 AM): um thats nice, more death
Frumskeptic (12:10:41 AM): no, not like that. s/t giong on in our shul. and so im so anti it. and i went to a speech sunday, adn the rabbi there was talking abot s/t and i used wats going on at my shul as an example. and he was like " o man, the program is doomed"
Frumskeptic (12:11:36 AM): i was like "im so having my rabbi call you"
Frumskeptic (12:11:44 AM): ad we went into this whole long discussion
Frumskeptic (12:12:27 AM): then i told my rabbi. he told me to give the other rabbis number today. so b4 i even gave him the # i obv told him the name of hte Rabbi, and he was like "I know him real well" and by the way my rabbi was talking; he obv didnt like the other rabbi very much
Frumskeptic (12:13:34 AM): so i for sure opened doors to s/t i bet he thinks i shouldnt have. I;m totally proud of myself tho, that i was lucky enough to have this fall into my lap
heathensRUS (12:15:03 AM): whats the argument about
Frumskeptic (12:15:23 AM): they started a second minyan. no one in shul likes the idea. the rabbi convinced presidents
heathensRUS (12:15:49 AM): im sorry, could you speak english
Frumskeptic (12:15:52 AM): and tehy completely bypassed the voting and just allowed hte program
heathensRUS (12:16:09 AM): ok. and this is bad why?
Frumskeptic (12:16:19 AM): political reasons
heathensRUS (12:16:24 AM): ...
Frumskeptic (12:16:42 AM): the other rabbi who runs has an agenda to just pick up and leave, once he has his own following
heathensRUS (12:20:05 AM): umm hmm
heathensRUS (12:20:17 AM): i think this is one of the reasons i dont do religion
Frumskeptic (12:20:17 AM): long story
Frumskeptic (12:20:26 AM): this has nothing to do with religion at all
Frumskeptic (12:20:34 AM): tehre are retards in evry community
heathensRUS (12:20:40 AM): its your rabbi, its tied into religion
Frumskeptic (12:20:41 AM): its called bureacrates
Frumskeptic (12:20:52 AM): it has nothing to do with religion. its political
heathensRUS (12:21:02 AM): once religion becomes this stupid, theres no hope
heathensRUS (12:21:07 AM): and i said only one of the reasons
Frumskeptic (12:21:33 AM): this is normal when a group of ppl with differing opinions are togethr for a cause
heathensRUS (12:22:08 AM): yes its why i think organized religion is the bigger evil
Frumskeptic (12:22:15 AM): nothing at all to do with religion, i do not care about ur other reasons for not being religious, u are entitled to them, but if this is one of them, u are misunderstanding the situation; or just about any organized institutiton. wats it have to do with religion? the entire political system works the exact same way. No one likes it when the president (regardles of what party) does something without listening to congress
heathensRUS (12:23:46 AM): oh, of course
Frumskeptic (12:23:53 AM): if you are pro anarchy, i would see ur point, but to abolish a form of organization cuz of a debate/argument, would be a bit extreme in a society, dont u think? so therefore, alluding this to a religious thing, is wrong. Be an athiest all u like. just dont use this argument for it
heathensRUS (12:24:37 AM): but i personally believe that religion should be independent of politics. like organized religion really sucks, individual faith is okay
Frumskeptic (12:24:43 AM): i 100% agree with u. thats y socially i am a liberatairan. however, if you are religious, u tend to stick to fellow religious ppl. its only natural. cuz u want someone with the same pt of view therefore it is only natural for something to organize on its own, which will only cause debate amongst the ppl/ sometimes good, sometimes bad
heathensRUS (12:27:22 AM): yes but in order to bring those people together, you need an religious institution to which to cling
Frumskeptic (12:28:23 AM): yes. but tahts normal thats like a political institution in whcih to cling. ppl are sociala.if they all agree on a belief, they will start an insitution together, be it a democratic or social institution,or an lets fight cancer institution. but there will be disagreements and politics no matter how good the intentions were, or how nice the ppl were. so nothing to dowith organized religion at al. b/c if it did u gotta abolish ALL institutions
heathensRUS (12:31:16 AM): not if i had my way lol. i realllly dislike religion
Frumskeptic (12:31:28 AM): im curiuos wats
heathensRUS (12:39:35 AM): no i just dont like religion and would rather there not be any. this is separate from what you're talking about
Frumskeptic (12:40:16 AM): no. ure blaming organized religion for the cause of all evil
basically because of the organizing of it
Frumskeptic (12:40:45 AM): am i right? becuase if im not, i would like to be corrected, so that i can clarify my point
heathensRUS (12:42:41 AM): no not for all evil. i just think religion has caused more damage than good since its conception
Frumskeptic (12:43:09 AM): how so? and since when was it conceptualized?
heathensRUS (12:43:29 AM): im sorry...have you missed the middle east lately? lol
Frumskeptic (12:43:40 AM): thats a power struggle. most israeli's are not religios
heathensRUS (12:43:51 AM): that doesnt matter
Frumskeptic (12:43:55 AM): yea it does. its a power struggle
heathensRUS (12:44:00 AM): no it doesnt
Frumskeptic (12:44:04 AM): yes it does
heathensRUS (12:44:06 AM): religion is used for reasoning
Frumskeptic (12:44:07 AM): if you're not relgious
heathensRUS (12:44:13 AM): and i completely disagree with you
heathensRUS (12:44:20 AM): so i really dont want to go into this
Frumskeptic (12:44:28 AM): lets not talk mideast then
Frumskeptic (12:44:31 AM): cuz thats to sticky
Frumskeptic (12:44:54 AM): when was religion conceptualized and what has it done from the start?
heathensRUS (12:46:32 AM): well i imagine religion was conceptualized with the first people who tried to explain their surroundings. and since its beginning, its alienated and divided people. although im not gonna lie, many earlier pagan religions were a whole lot more peaceful than when judaism began
Frumskeptic (12:47:07 AM): well...how about the first political/class system that conceptualized
Frumskeptic (12:47:11 AM): that alienated ppl
heathensRUS (12:47:15 AM): im not comparing that
heathensRUS (12:47:24 AM): im talking specifically about religion
Frumskeptic (12:47:51 AM): ok... i do not know much about first pagan religions, except that many did sacrifice children/virgins
Frumskeptic (12:47:59 AM): so im not gtonna talk much about them
Frumskeptic (12:48:10 AM): but if you go by the history of judaism it was kinda conceived peacefully
Frumskeptic (12:48:21 AM): looky at the bible, hebrews didnt wanna be slaves
Frumskeptic (12:48:24 AM): they organized
Frumskeptic (12:48:29 AM): moses was leader
Frumskeptic (12:48:31 AM): he got them out
Frumskeptic (12:48:36 AM): tehy started judaism
heathensRUS (12:48:42 AM): oh yes, the jewish god was very peaceful. you know, killing all them infants and all....if thats not peaceful, i dont know what is
Frumskeptic (12:48:59 AM): all infants?
heathensRUS (12:49:53 AM): oh you dont recall what happened during passover?
Frumskeptic (12:51:11 AM): i do. But i see you are conviently forgetting that pharoah passed a law that all jewish boys were to be killed . and the law was very much enforced...hense moses in a basket story
Frumskeptic (12:51:57 AM): and there was no religion till sinai, after they escaped, just a clan of people with common ancestary who happened to be enslaved
heathensRUS (12:53:21 AM): it doesnt matter, tthe pharaoh doing one bastard thing doesnt justify another bastard thing
heathensRUS (12:53:33 AM): and reading the bible only shows what a bastard the jewish god is
Frumskeptic (12:53:44 AM): well..lets not talk about more than one story at once
Frumskeptic (12:53:48 AM): but about pharoah
Frumskeptic (12:53:52 AM): its called self-defense
Frumskeptic (12:53:57 AM): and unlike the pharoah
Frumskeptic (12:54:03 AM): the jews DID warn the egyptians
Frumskeptic (12:54:12 AM): they didnt want to be slaves
heathensRUS (12:54:14 AM): oh yes, that makes it alright
Frumskeptic (12:54:16 AM): they had to do something
Frumskeptic (12:54:33 AM): ok...do u think the Blacks had the right to fight in the North ?
Frumskeptic (12:54:37 AM): or should they have been slaves?
Frumskeptic (12:55:00 AM): just cuz the confedaracy harrassed them, doesnt make it right for them to harrass back
Frumskeptic (12:55:03 AM): interesting concept
heathensRUS (12:55:21 AM): well i suppose then hitler would have been totally justified if he had ONLY WARNED THE JEWS
heathensRUS (12:56:33 AM): also id like to point out we're arguing over different things
Frumskeptic (12:56:35 AM): the situation was a bit different. the jews were not enslaved in
heathensRUS (12:57:28 AM): we're arguing two different things. im not arguing against the jews fighting back, im arguing over that whole god saying "i command all the first born males to be killed thing". cuz i sure as hell know all those babies didnt slight the jews
heathensRUS (12:57:52 AM): basically old testament god is the biggest asshole around
Frumskeptic (12:58:03 AM): ok...he didnt kill babies..lhe killed first borns. meanig, if u were 90 and first born, u die.
Frumskeptic (12:58:12 AM): #2, imagine Gd as the commander in chief
Frumskeptic (12:58:16 AM): not as Gd
Frumskeptic (12:58:20 AM): same difference
heathensRUS (12:58:43 AM): what does that have to do with anything? in this situation hes god. and hes an asshole
Frumskeptic (12:59:01 AM): nothing to do with religion. its self defense, and as a leader Gd felt that this had to be done, since they didnt respond to his other attacks, which were not so harsh
Frumskeptic (12:59:05 AM): its all strategy
Frumskeptic (12:59:10 AM): ofcourse it does have to do withit
heathensRUS (12:59:15 AM): its not self defense, its useless killing
heathensRUS (12:59:29 AM): not to mention
heathensRUS (12:59:44 AM): being god doesnt absolve him from being an asshole
Frumskeptic (1:00:03 AM): ok...remember Heroshima and Nagasaki (excuse the mispelling)...the reason the US did that, was to prevent the war from going on. they warned the Japanese, they tried everything
Frumskeptic (1:00:05 AM): didnt respond
Frumskeptic (1:00:06 AM): its war
Frumskeptic (1:00:09 AM): it had to be done
heathensRUS (1:00:11 AM): if he did the exact same thing as the pharoh, for example, and the pharoh as an asshole, gods an asshole too. being god doesnt save him
Frumskeptic (1:00:35 AM): so wat is gd supposed to do? take away pharoahs free will and abolish him?
Frumskeptic (1:00:37 AM): send him to hell?
Frumskeptic (1:00:44 AM): its still a fre and open society
Frumskeptic (1:00:51 AM): yes..i know this brings us to the Problem of Evil
heathensRUS (1:00:52 AM): well god doesnt really exist so....
Frumskeptic (1:01:37 AM): so then..u should just then use gd as the commander in chief and that hsould make u feel better. its all about logic, u cant take away the free will of ppl
Frumskeptic (1:01:42 AM): it gotta look natural
Frumskeptic (1:01:50 AM): if youdont believe in gd, that is YOUR choice
Frumskeptic (1:01:53 AM): i doNOT care
Frumskeptic (1:01:58 AM): and i have NO agenda towards u
Frumskeptic (1:02:29 AM): but once again..u cannot blame religion, and that is my poioint, to prove to you, it ISNT the religious institution that enslaved the hebrews
Frumskeptic (1:02:50 AM): or the blacks that were enslaved in the south
Frumskeptic (1:02:58 AM): its jackass racist/ethnocentricism
Frumskeptic (1:03:00 AM): that did it
Frumskeptic (1:03:03 AM): NOT religion
heathensRUS (1:04:19 AM): hahah completely disagree with you
Frumskeptic (1:04:28 AM): religion is like the scape goat in your example
heathensRUS (1:04:33 AM): you're right
heathensRUS (1:04:36 AM): i never denied it
heathensRUS (1:04:45 AM): right from the beginning i said i personally dislike religion
heathensRUS (1:04:59 AM): the funny thing is
heathensRUS (1:05:13 AM): its the religious people themselves who use it as a scapegoat as well
Frumskeptic (1:05:19 AM): so then its just an irrational hatred towards religion, so instead of balimg ALL social institutions, and i would agree with you on that
heathensRUS (1:05:22 AM): i suppose that gives me the right to do it too
Frumskeptic (1:05:24 AM): you pick jsut one
heathensRUS (1:05:34 AM): its not irrational at all
Frumskeptic (1:05:39 AM): well...i disagree when relgios ppl do that
Frumskeptic (1:05:44 AM): and i think its wrong
heathensRUS (1:05:45 AM): u can disagree with it
heathensRUS (1:05:50 AM): but many still do it
Frumskeptic (1:05:55 AM): and using ur argument, if one is a bastard,k doesnt give u the right to be a bastard to
Frumskeptic (1:05:59 AM): so y u scapgoating
Frumskeptic (1:06:08 AM): shouldnt u lead by example and not war?
heathensRUS (1:06:31 AM): am i being a bastard? i didnt realize i was
Frumskeptic (1:06:38 AM): no
Frumskeptic (1:06:41 AM): im not sayinfg that
Frumskeptic (1:06:43 AM): at all
Frumskeptic (1:06:47 AM): i do not resort to name calling
heathensRUS (1:06:53 AM): however...when i get my hands on nuclear weapons...mwahahahah
Frumskeptic (1:06:54 AM): im resorting tothe example used above
Frumskeptic (1:07:10 AM): u said that gd had no right to retaliate the same way as pharoah
heathensRUS (1:07:17 AM): no thats not what i said
Frumskeptic (1:07:21 AM): and u used "bastard"
Frumskeptic (1:07:23 AM): so its the same thing
Frumskeptic (1:07:32 AM): if jews couldnt kill first born, cuz its bastard like
heathensRUS (1:07:36 AM): i said the old testament god is an asshole and anyone who believes thats a good god is blind
Frumskeptic (1:07:41 AM): than just cuz THEY do it, doesnt give you the right
heathensRUS (1:08:01 AM): the jews could have done it
Frumskeptic (1:08:08 AM): b/c he retaliated he's a bastard?
Frumskeptic (1:08:12 AM): how could slaves have done it
Frumskeptic (1:08:24 AM): thast like saying without the north the blacks should have done it
Frumskeptic (1:08:30 AM): the north is evil
Frumskeptic (1:08:32 AM): i like that
Frumskeptic (1:08:39 AM): interesting perspective
heathensRUS (1:08:45 AM): im just saying the god of the jews is an asshole . idont understand why this is hard for you to understand
Frumskeptic (1:08:52 AM): i do understand it
Frumskeptic (1:08:56 AM): believe wat u want
heathensRUS (1:08:58 AM): you're making irrational comparisons
heathensRUS (1:09:01 AM): you're right, i will
Frumskeptic (1:09:12 AM): i think this particular example is just a bad one to use
heathensRUS (1:10:00 AM): if god is this special being, he should be above the pettiness of humans.
Frumskeptic (1:10:29 AM): ok. so then gd should not interfere?
heathensRUS (1:12:29 AM): hahah he sure didnt with the holocaust
Frumskeptic (1:12:53 AM): well i dunno about that. we were warned in the bible not to assimilate
Frumskeptic (1:12:59 AM): and we were given warning
Frumskeptic (1:13:09 AM): so... he did his part i would say
heathensRUS (1:13:14 AM): hahaha
heathensRUS (1:13:17 AM): so uer funny
heathensRUS (1:13:24 AM): ur so *
Frumskeptic (1:13:30 AM): maybe He decided to be above the human pettiness?
heathensRUS (1:13:45 AM): ull find anything to try to justify this
Frumskeptic (1:13:48 AM): no
Frumskeptic (1:14:05 AM): im just saying that its not religion, its social institutions, nothing at all to do with Gd
Frumskeptic (1:14:07 AM): ever
Frumskeptic (1:14:07 AM): ever
heathensRUS (1:14:16 AM): and i disagree
Frumskeptic (1:14:40 AM): but im curious. if you do not beleive in gd, then how could u blame gd for all the bad things ?
heathensRUS (1:15:22 AM): no no
heathensRUS (1:15:27 AM): i blame religion
Frumskeptic (1:16:12 AM): i know.... so tehrefore, you are targetting a SPECIFIC social group of people, who YOU happen to disagree with, because they have a belief in something YOU happen to not agree with.
heathensRUS (1:16:28 AM): no
Frumskeptic (1:16:34 AM): so, war is NOT bad because of religion, but because of the loonies who use religion as an excuse to go to war
heathensRUS (1:16:37 AM): not a specific group of people
Frumskeptic (1:16:53 AM): yes, ppl who believe in gd
Frumskeptic (1:17:05 AM): and organize themselves wiht fellow ppl to worship together
Frumskeptic (1:17:22 AM): and use their beliefs to bomb ppl to spread their religion
heathensRUS (1:17:27 AM): but this group of people is so vast it could hardly be called a group, and more like the majority of humans
Frumskeptic (1:17:56 AM): ok. so then u just hate ppl
heathensRUS (1:18:02 AM): im secretly a misanthrope at heart
Frumskeptic (1:18:05 AM): me 2
Frumskeptic (1:18:08 AM): lol
heathensRUS (1:18:12 AM): hahaha
Frumskeptic (1:18:18 AM): i also hate ppl that use relgion as an excuse to bomb ppl
Frumskeptic (1:18:29 AM): i dont think im evil
heathensRUS (1:18:34 AM): ooo i hate them too
Frumskeptic (1:18:41 AM): i think alot of wats going on in the mideast is over the top
heathensRUS (1:18:51 AM): but see th difference between me and you
Frumskeptic (1:18:57 AM): but mideast is sticky so i cannot talk about that with u
Frumskeptic (1:19:01 AM): to long and complex
heathensRUS (1:19:09 AM): the difference between me and you
Frumskeptic (1:19:13 AM): ...
Frumskeptic (1:19:34 AM): is that you blame specific ppl, while i dont?
heathensRUS (1:19:35 AM): is that you still find religion good, while i think if there wasnt any religion there'd be one last thing to use as an excuse for horrible things
heathensRUS (1:19:42 AM): less*
Frumskeptic (1:19:43 AM): i thiink religion is a tool
Frumskeptic (1:19:47 AM): u can do watever u choose with it
Frumskeptic (1:19:51 AM): it is a TOOl
Frumskeptic (1:19:57 AM): wat u do with it , is wat u make it
heathensRUS (1:20:02 AM): its a tool used as a means
Frumskeptic (1:20:10 AM): right. i use it as good
heathensRUS (1:20:22 AM): well we might disagree here lol
Frumskeptic (1:20:31 AM): wel...im not forcingt anyone to be religios
Frumskeptic (1:20:41 AM): so unless i am killing or s/t it cannot possibly be "bad"
Frumskeptic (1:20:47 AM): so therefor u have NO idea how i use it
Frumskeptic (1:20:53 AM): so u technically cannot judge me
heathensRUS (1:21:01 AM): well one might argue believing in such crap is detrimental to humanity in and of itself lol
heathensRUS (1:21:07 AM): of course IM not arguing that
Frumskeptic (1:21:17 AM): yea u are
Frumskeptic (1:21:19 AM): lol
heathensRUS (1:21:21 AM): lol nahhhh
heathensRUS (1:21:26 AM): i just like screwing with you
Frumskeptic (1:21:34 AM): and just me, and majority of ppl i know, who became religios
Frumskeptic (1:21:39 AM): realy do question EERYTHING
Frumskeptic (1:21:42 AM): so w/e tehy do beleive
Frumskeptic (1:21:47 AM): they still bring science into the world
Frumskeptic (1:21:54 AM): they do not want to stop the progress of science
Frumskeptic (1:22:06 AM): or any sort of progress, be it social or mathematical
Frumskeptic (1:22:31 AM): so just cuz we happen to take a day off on saturday and not eat everything on the menu, we are basically like allergic lazy pplk who need a day off
heathensRUS (1:22:31 AM): well thank goodness for you people
Frumskeptic (1:22:46 AM): are u being sarcastic?
heathensRUS (1:22:52 AM): not at all actually
Frumskeptic (1:22:54 AM): so u see
Frumskeptic (1:22:58 AM): u cant say im BAD
heathensRUS (1:22:58 AM): its too bad more people cant be like you
Frumskeptic (1:23:19 AM): cuz i 100% agree with u that alot of loonies in those stupid hats and furry things are messed up
heathensRUS (1:23:26 AM): lol btw
Frumskeptic (1:23:28 AM): but unfortunatelly most ppl are stupid
heathensRUS (1:23:34 AM): its so funny what u said
heathensRUS (1:23:41 AM): being jewish is like being an allergic lazy person
heathensRUS (1:23:47 AM): hahahah
Frumskeptic (1:23:53 AM): well..how else do i desbribe it?
Frumskeptic (1:23:53 AM): lol
heathensRUS (1:24:04 AM): can you said it again, so i can facebook you
Frumskeptic (1:24:07 AM): an allergic lazy person isnt hurting anyone
Frumskeptic (1:24:08 AM): lol
heathensRUS (1:24:28 AM): AHA
heathensRUS (1:24:33 AM): A LAZY PERSON HURTS THE ECONOMY LOL
Frumskeptic (1:25:02 AM): a Jew is like being an allergic lazy person who needs a day off on saturday
Frumskeptic (1:25:21 AM): well no...cuz ppl who work crazy hours get burned out
Frumskeptic (1:25:25 AM): and they need to go on vacation
Frumskeptic (1:25:39 AM): so instead of going on vacation..since we're cheap, we juwst take a day off on saturday
heathensRUS (1:26:17 AM): lol way to perpetuate the stereotype
Frumskeptic (1:26:25 AM): i knew ud like it
Frumskeptic (1:26:39 AM): but u are amused!!
Frumskeptic (1:26:47 AM): so therfore i accomplished my task
Tuesday, January 1, 2008
Plus, my neighbors have just walked out onto their porch with their obnoxiously loud guests. I looked at my sister and said "First smoke of the New Year" ... So much for a new years resolution on their part, huh?