Sunday, May 10, 2009

Secular Holidays

Being Mothers Day, I decided I should write a post about it. When I browsed my previous posts I realized that I had already written a mothers day post last year.

So I decided I'll write about a recent things I heard about secular holidays, by the frummy people.

One person I was speaking to was telling me about how much better Jewish holidays are than the secular ones. She was saying that the Jewish holidays are "real" because they are on specific days. They fall out whenever they fall out, and they aren't done on Sundays, or on "convenient" days like the secular ones. She said "We don't make holidays to fall out for 3-day-weekends, we have them fall out when Gd wants them to!"

I have two major issues with this woman's ridiculous argument.

1- Holidays like Easter and Christmas fall out on the days [they believe] Gd wants it too. Then there is Independence Day (4th of July) which isn't necessarily on a convenient day.

2- What is the problem with a man-made holiday falling out on a convenient day? As I pointed out in #1 their religious holidays fall out when they are supposed, and July 4th as well. Holidays like Memorial Day and Labor Day represent many wars, which means celebrating them on a specific day is in-actuality unnecessary.

What do these retarded people have a problem with. Why is everything "secular" necessarily bad?




Child אִישׁ Behavior said...

This woman's comment is also wrong even from a Jewish point of view. While we do have a calendar, Kidush HaChodesh is in the hands of the court of humanity to decide when it falls out, not some heavenly voice. And while Hillel made the calendar and said this is the way everyone should follow, it is still man made. In fact, there are specific Halachos of Fasts not falling out on certain days, before the calendar was figured out. It is only after they figured out the calendar that the conflict does not happen.

frumskeptic said...

childish- I like your new signature. :-)

You made excellent points as well!

Moshe said...

Christmas and Easter are not secular holidays.

Purim is also scheduled to never fall on Shabbat.

3 day yomim tovim are grrrrr.

frumskeptic said...

When I mentioned Christmas and Easter I was pointing out that their "G-d made" holidays are not convenient, but the actual man made ones are. What is wrong with that? Good, men have respect for other men.

David said...

"We don't make holidays to fall out for 3-day-weekends, we have them fall out when Gd wants them to!"

People like this have a problem. If they don't point out how bad everything else is, they won't be able to feel good about what they have. I think it suggests a certain insecurity. The bottom line is that our holidays are usually a major inconvenience and a big pain in the ass (can't do this, can't do that, have to do this etc.). Secular holidays are generally a lot more fun.

Next, she'll tell you how much better kosher food tastes.

Moshe said...

Kosher L'Pesach food is awesome! It's even better than regular kosher food!

%Shocked% said...

Hehe, good one FS. I enjoyed reading this post immensely. Although there are two sides of the story. On the one hand holidays that are completely secular are completely harmless. It's along the lines of the classic chain e-mail that I'm sure some of you received. Chumra of the week club or something. A society where everyone tries to outdo the next by being more frum, which is sad, but often true. And this is just one more. On the other hand, we do try and separate ourselves from the secular world as much as possible. There's a reason why nowadays we have the white-shirt, black-hat community. Some may see that as an extreme, but it's quite logical. There are unhealthy influences in the secular world. If we want to retain our sense of Judaism to the fullest, why contaminate it with secular holidays. I'm not proposing that we shouldn't be thankful to the United States or any other country that allows us to live in peace in their borders, but we don't have to celebrate it on their terms. Mother's and Father's Day as well. Sure, it's convenient. But, along with most things in Judaism, being thankful isn't supposed to be convenient. It should be a work in progress until we can reach the level of waking up every morning and thanking Hashem for everything we have. Mother's, father's, a free country to live in, etc. It's something we should aspire to accomplish rather than be lackadaisical about and celebrate on the days that the US designated these days of recognition to be on.

%Shocked% said...

Oops, forgot my last point. As of yet, I'm not sure what I think of secular holidays. There are pros and cons. Something for me to consider lol.

Moshe said...

"...separate ourselves from the secular world..."
Yes, like the ever so popular "Adopt a pedophile" program. Or the "let's outdo the stupid goyim's vanity" shidduch system.

The whole Men In Black crap is as much imitation of secular society as anything else. Go to Manhattan and look around.

The only ones I see putting their money where their mouth is are New Square. Some of the people there don't even speak English.

%Shocked% said...

I do believe I missed your point about the adopt a pedophile program but I'm not sure why what I'm saying is so radical. Yes, people take the separation to an extreme in ways that I consider inappropriate, but why is it so terrible not to sink ourselves into the secular world that we live in?? Living in America, with few exceptions, we will be affected by the world around us. Why is limiting that a problem?

And do me a favor. Rather than speaking as if I know what your talking about, say what you mean. Speaking vaguely, "The whole Men In Black crap is as much imitation of secular society as anything else. Go to Manhattan and look around."
doesn't enlighten me on the point your trying to make. What does Manhattan have to do with anything? lol