I have nice family friends, friends, relatives, rabbi's, and all other weird random people who try and set me up all the time. I don't mind going on these dates. I like the experience of meeting new people, and I like having stories to tell my friends. I don't date a lot, I'm on the picky side, and I do not know too many people, so its not like my phone rings off the hook with "shidduch suggestions" but I've been on enough dates that I can officially complain about it.
Firstly, I will explain what I mean by picky, so that you can understand where I'm coming from. I am not picky about height, eye color, hair color or dress style. I'm super OK with any guy taller than me (I'm 5'2 so that's really not that hard) who has orange hair and wears purple pants to work every morning because he feels like it. I just want him to have a job- with growth potential, and be the ambitious go-getter type. And I want him to have hobbies, and interests and some sort of fun in his life.
Most of my well meaning "shadchanim" (I guess that's what they are, even though they literally do not involve themselves in anything after the exchange of phone calls), wouldn't know a shidduch if it beat them on the head. I got set up only twice with normal guys. What do I mean by normal? Well, for one, they had interests and hobbies outside of work and surfing the web. They read books, newspapers, were interested in politics, and other random things exclusive to them. But that's two guys! Only two. The other guys had literally no interests outside of their jobs. I guess that would be a good thing, that they like their jobs so much... but its not. Because when you're on a date and you ask the guy "do you have any hobbies", and he says "Well, I come home tired, so I just kind of read magazines and watch TV" it gets really annoying. And please do not think that sports is a hobby- unless you actually play.
Seriously...I care just as much about the Mets/Yankees as you probably do about the shoes I'm wearing. I don't mention my shoes (unless the walk is killing my feet) and I'd prefer you not mention Derek Jeter or Mike Piazza. I'm NOT interested. Mention something else... do you collect comic books? play video games? Nope, guys I've dated these days don't do that.
When I ask "so what do you ?"
I almost always get "Well, I work as X, then I come home tired. I watch TV. I sometimes hang out with my friends."
I had one guy tell me his brother takes him to clubs so that they could meet girls. SERIOUSLY? Why are you telling me about your ventures in meeting other girls?
Anyway...I never get "Oh, I like to read sci-fi books" or "I collect comic books" or "I'm interested in art, sometimes I come home and just paint" or "I keep a journal". Nothing. All boring.
There were two guys I went out with not like that. Who had hobbies. And I broke up with them for various reasons. But when I go out with other guys, I begin to wonder if I did the right thing in breaking up with them. Then I drive myself nuts...lately I've been taking it out on blogging.
26 comments:
>Anyway...I never get "Oh, I like to read sci-fi books" or "I collect comic books" or "I'm interested in art, sometimes I come home and just paint" or "I keep a journal".
Oh, many many guys have hobbies like that, but I think they are too afraid to admit that cause they are afraid of what you might think of them. (ie. childish)c
lol. I guess I shoulda mentioned that almost all guys know my favorite color is pink. :).
Oh..and I'm so cool to be on a date with. I've got the best stories to tell. I dont think they would fear being childish. I'm totally not one of those intimidating date types.
Though that is a good point. Didnt think that they'd be afraid to admit their hobbies.
Is your senpai one of those 2 guys? I think the 2 of you agreed to disagree or something.
Unfortunately my other friends aren't ambitious and are somewhat depressive. Except for one who's 32...dunno if you want to date someone that old...
holy - they are childish. My husband (for many years) collected football cards and dungeons and dragons (I think thats what its called) card. I am sure happy I had no clue when we were dating. And yes after we got married, more then once I thought - man, I married a loser! But after many years and the fact that he did stop collecting this stuff I am happier.
p.s...he just corrected me - magic the gathering cards.
p.p.s...I didnt totally kill his creative drive, he still fishes and LOVES football - yey me!
He collected Magic cards or he played Magic?
Both, he actually went to a few tournaments post-marriage.
That's not too bad. If he'd be only collecting them and not using them, that's crazy.
LOL
realistic viewer: I went out with a guy who played magic. Didn't mind one bit. Don't care. Atleast he did something. he went to tournaments. So what.. a bit lame. Atleast he did something other than watch TV.
fs - you say that now, but don't forget you want someone with (intelligent) interests - books, business, politics. You wouldn't be so happy if a guy goes to tournaments and has his "lame" hobbies but doesn't share any of yours.
realistic viewer:
I want him to be intelligent. Therefore he'll prob have intelligent hobbies (newspaper, politics w/e). Just ucz a few of his hobbies are lame (ie magic) doesnt mean I'd hate it.
I didn't mind it. THe guy got $200/month for being an officer (for magic tournaments)...while still in college. He just played games and got paid for it. And he had other hobbies too.
Your totally misunderstanding me. Lets bet honest the VAST MAJORITY of people in this world do not have "intelligent" hobbies (present company excluded). I did the whole dating scene, you will never know all of a persons hobbies or interests before you are married (unless you date for years, and even then its easy to overlook little things that don't pertain to your individual relationship with a person). What I am saying is, I think that it is good, very good indeed, that I didn't know these things about my husband before (Though I knew him for MANY years). I would not have respected these hobbies - AND I am entitled to choose which hobbies I want to respect...dont be a democrat and tell me that I have to respect every bodies hobbies :)
I have a friend (SUPER DUPER DUPER FRUM!) Who (is older, successful, and a little too mature) told me recently that she would not EVER date a guy, no matter how good on paper he is, if he does not have a REALLY successful white collar job. I asked her "well, what if he owns a super successful plumbing business and he is franchising and bringing in high 6 figures a year?" She said that she would absolutely never date anyone like that because (YOUR GONNA LOVE THIS) "what is the reason that he became a plumber in the first place and not an attorney? Because he didn't like to read and that means he is not an intellectual." I don't agree with her statement, hey money is money :) but I can totally understand and appreciate a person not respecting another persons daily habitual entertainment pursuits (ie blogging) :)
Here's where you're both wrong. He could be a plumber not because he doesn't like to read but because it's a more fun job than attorney.
I, personally, prefer construction but it doesn't pay as well. I love reading but I have little interest in things like art, keeping up with news and most politics. My hobby is about having fun.
realistic viewer - I think our husbands would make great friends. lol.
It could be they don't know how to articulate their interests/hobbies either. If I just met you and you asked me what my hobbies were, I would probably say "nothing, watching tv and reading the internet" which are some things I do every night.
But if I thought about it (and wasn't put on the spot, first date style) I could say I read tons of books (all sorts, including sci-fi), write two blogs, follow politics, watch cartoons, go to live music shows, go camping, keep an herb garden, cook, like to try new kinds of food, play with my kitties, play guitar, paint, play video games, have a huge music collection, etc, etc, etc.
I think many of these young men you may be dating are never told things like how to talk about themselves in an interesting way, and are not taught to be very introspective about their own interests and hobbies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression of shidduch dating is that young men and women are expected to date after never really talking to people of the opposite gender, and are never told how to do so effectively, what you should really be looking for (compatible life goals), how to engage in serious conversation, and how to present themselves. The ones who do this naturally get married quickly, while the ones who struggle with these things learn the hard (and long) way.
Not that people who date in the 'secular' world are explicitly told these things either, but they're expected to figure those things out over time, and not expected to be married by age 20.
Some may not know how to express themselves but quiet a few simply don't have hobbies. And I'm not even talking about frummies.
Yeah, a lot of guys are dead boring...but then again a lot of girls are more boring!
But seriously; you obviously seem like a person with overflowing energy, and you definitely need a dynamic guy. One thing I would suggest though, is ...well...(I'm not saying this about myself!), but some guys like girls who are willing to do some serious listening!, so...
And for the record- if anybody's interested, I know scores of interesting guys from Shor Yoshuv who need to find themselves girls (not that I don't)!
Abondoning Eden – FS is dating BT boys. These boys grew up in secular world and do know how to speak to girls.
Realistic Viewer – Someone’s profession has no corelation to their IQ. One could be a genious and a carpenter or a plumber. Some people just don’t have enough patience to sit still from 9 to 5. Others want to be their own boss. Plumbers, for example, make their own schedule, their own times off and etc.
mlevin - im not the one who said it, it was my super frum friend (we all have one)
FrumSkeptic- What do you do when you come home from work? What would you answer to your own questions? Also, it could be that the guys your dating started working recently and happen to be tired because they need to make an adjustment.
Ophir:
I'd have alot of things to answer.
I read alot, I love philosophy. I'm interested in politics. I'm into investing, I talk about things I read in Forbes and the Wall Street Journal. I LOOOOVE to cook.
There are so many things people can do. Coming home tired isn't an excuse for not doing anything. What would he do when he comes home from work after marraige? Will he just sit there and watch TV?
FS- You are right that a person shouldn't just come home and watch TV and do nothing. At the same time TV is a very good relaxation tool and if you grow up with it, it is very hard to get rid of it. A person should limit his TV watching and spend more time with his wife and kids. If some one doesn't have a wife and kids then he doesn't necessarily need to limit it right now. It might change when he is married. A person might not have many friends or be the one in the group to make the plans but if he had a wife who asked him to go bowling or a movie he would say yes. People can and do change based on situations. I think it also could be that these guys were put on the spot and thats the first thing that came to mind. I personally wouldn't break up with someone because they answered TV or surfing the Web to that question(because I have so much dating experience...not!! lol)As you get to know someone you will probably find out that they have other hobbies. btw- I love Forbes and WSJ-best paper of all time. I love their op-eds. I also like to cook but i'm not into philosophy so much. It hurts my brain too much lol.
Ophir:
I am definitly not against television, but sometimes that is ALL people do. Its terrible.
I understand sometimes people are on the spot, but usually theres alot of conversation and its obvious the guy literally is all work and TV/internet.
For example, just two weeks ago I went on a date with a guy. The ENTIRE time he spoke about his work. I tried to change the topic, like "Obama did this..." or "McCain said that..." or try to tell him things about little kids I babysat and books i've read. He was not at all able to hold coversations on any topics, because he didn't know anything. He never read the paper, and never played with kids (which ok, how many guys babysit) but still. NO politics, its like the craziest election in US history! He was so dull!
I don't understand how someone in their 20's has nothing to talk about but his work. Maybe mention a friend or a class you took in college. SOMETHING.
They can't. Cuz their lives are very stupid. To them their friends are just there, their educational background was just a tool to get the job they wanted, and their job is just their life until they get married and then continue on being dull with a spouse. I have friends like that. No hobbies and they married no hobby guys.
FS- You are right that is terrible. I feel bad you went through such an experience.
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