Tuesday, March 10, 2009

Quality over Qauntity

I told someone today "Some people aren't worth money, the frum community is better off if they remain outside, and not frum"

The person was like "they're all Hashem's children, you don't really believe that?"

I said "I honestly believe that, I don't give a cent of my maaser to kiruv organizations because I think their tactics are wrong. I believe quality over quantity"

He goes "you don't believe that"

Me - "Oh yes I do. If a person makes someone frum, its the same as like preventing poverty by just handing poor people money. It works in the beginning, but 5-10 years down the line, you're screwed. Heck, look at the economy. People don't become frum cuz of other people"

Convo continued. Will not share the rest.

Why am I sharing this? Because you, my dear readers, should know, that I don't think all people are created equal. Stupid people are on a lower level and they should be controlled.

14 comments:

happyduck1979 said...

I agree that many kiruv organizations do not go at it in a way that has lasting effect, but that is not to say all are like that or that being mekarev anyone at all is not worth it. Just clarifying is all.

David said...

"Stupid people are on a lower level and they should be controlled."

So, who should be frum-- the stupid ones, or the not-stupid ones?

Jessica said...

If kiruv works on people it's because they let it work on themselves. I know it may seem like some of these organizations brainwash people, but we're all in control of ourselves. If it works, it's because those people let it, not because the organization forced it to. If down the line the person realizes they don't want to be frum, that's all on them, not the organization that made them frum.

Mikeinmidwood said...

What type of quality do you want?

frumskeptic said...

happyduck- I'm not anti-kiruv, anti-commercial kiruv. Commercial kiruv is BS. If people really wanted to make others frum they wouldnt ostracise BTs the way they do. They'd allow them into their schools and not create separate programs for them. The bozo BTs who feel they want totally separate programs, dont actually want to be frum, they just want a clubhouse.

David- I dont think stupidity is exclusive to either side (frum/non frum), so the smart should control and not allow stupid people to do anything at all. Just have them in a cave somewhere producing electricity on treadmills or s/t. :-)

Jessica- I'm not talking about the people who are brainwashed. I'm talking about people who become frum because its convenient.

I know of so many people who send their children to those free kiruv yeshiva's becuase they dont want them in PS with the black people (they say it just like that, no shame). These people dont give a darn and they feed their kids shellfish and pig. They dont allow them to keep shabbos. Its disgusting.

now for those brainwashed- are you kidding me? Most people on this planet aren't capable of thinking for themselves.. Plus if you're told a lie often enough you begin to beleive it.

I was told so much fluff back in HS.

One girl said something of the sort:

"What do you mean you don't want a learner, do you want your husband to beat you."

You really think she became frummy for the right reasons? And she's not the only one.

frumskeptic said...

mike- people who want it themselves.

People who are out searching for religion, will stumble across it on their own. If you "reach out" to them in a commercial fashion, it won't be personalized.

Wait for people to come to you, and respond accordingly.

If they had to be sought, they never wanted it.

Jessica said...

...where do you find these people? I was under the assumption that most NY schools have very rigid standards for who they accept.
"Most people on this planet aren't capable of thinking for themselves."
Untrue. God gave ALL of us free will. Not just those you perceive as smart.

frumskeptic said...

"...where do you find these people?"

You don't wanna know. Seriously though, these people are out there. I know people who don't want their kids to be frum, but when it comes to free money they'll take it up in a second.

"I was under the assumption that most NY schools have very rigid standards for who they accept."

Yes yes, the mainstream BY/Yeshiva type schools. I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about the kiruv schools. The ones that have open admissions. The only standard you must pass is being a Jew. And even then, they have a don't ask don't tell policy. So if mom is not Jewish, they won't even know. They pretty much assume you're not lying.

If you send me an email, I'll give you the names of schools if you like. These schools do occassionally expel girls, like if they misbehave (like really misbehave, not just wear the wrong color socks).

My HS was a kiruv program, but since it wasn't stand-alone, but was just a program at a B'Y like school, they had standards.

"Untrue. God gave ALL of us free will. Not just those you perceive as smart."

Ok. Good point. I'll rephrase that.

Some people are intellectually incapable of using their free-will properly. They should be controlled and not allowed to make any major decisions.

Which is why I'm a strong believer in not granting the right to vote to the stupid.

jewish philosopher said...

"Stupid people are on a lower level and they should be controlled."

Agreed. OFS, when are you going start allowing me to control you? I'm waiting for an email. You're welcome.

Moshe said...

Jessica, I was in school like that for 3 years before going to Chaim Berlin. It's very true. It's actually worse, by behavior, than an average public school. The only difference is that your classmates are Jewish and most of these schools are separate.

"Some people aren't worth money, the frum community is better off if they remain outside, and not frum"
Jake the Fake, that's about you, buddy.
Problem is that if you'd remain outside it would be a lot harder to be an anti-semite.

Jessica said...

Moshe - I believe both you and FS. I didn't mean to imply that FS was making this up, it just seemed to me to be a very specific example that was the exception to the rule.

Moshe said...

So that's why I said it wasn't just one. Her school, my school, wife's school and friends' schools. All same story.

Jessica said...

All in NY, I assume?

Moshe said...

Yep.