Thursday, February 14, 2008


One of my friends told me that flirting was not a good idea, because it wasn't a very tznious approach to getting to know someone. Then I told her that by not flirting, or laughing, or acting like you comfortable like you would with friends, a guy you're out with on a date may get the wrong impression and feel awkward telling the shadchan that he wants to date you again. I totally made that up ofcourse, but it ended up leading to a very interesting convo on flirting. Today, when I opened up my msn homepage and saw the article on 10 funny flirting facts I just started laughing and thinking of that convo we had.

Here will be some arguments pro and against flirting in accordance to frum law.

The first and most interesting fact (in my opinion) is:

"Flirting is good for you. Studies show that people who flirt have higher white blood-cell counts, which boost their immunity and keep them healthy. "

This fact happens to be on the pro-flirting side. Fortunately for frum people (especially the girls who are super self-conscience) fact #5 states:

"Flirting need not occur face to face. According to Pew Research, 40 percent of people who look for love online say they can easily flirt with someone via email or IM"

All I wonder is whether or not flirting through a shadchan would boost immunity? Or else it may take a few dates before the dates lead to direct calling! and what happens to frummy immune systems then?

The next fact is an anti-flirting argument for the frummies. The fact states:

"In some places, flirting is illegal. In Little Rock, AR, an antiquated law is still on the books warning that engaging in playful banter may result in a 30-day jail term. In New York City, another outdated law mandates that men may be fined $25 for gazing lasciviously at a female; a second conviction stipulates the offender wear a pair of blinders whenever he goes out for a walk. "

If it can be illegal in Little Rock, and was illegal before in NYC, then why shouldn't it be illegal for the holier-than-thou competitors?

The last fact states:

"Watch out, you can overdo it. According to the Social Issues Research Centre, the most common mistake people make when flirting is maintaining too much eye contact."

Why should frummies allow flirting, if their girls have never seen guys and may just end up maintaining too much eye contact! How embarrassing that would be for her, and her entire self-esteem would be ruined (except for the fact that she's probably already anorexic and hates her amazing wavy and/or curly hair and shows it by slowly damaging it daily by straightening it).

This next fact isn't really an argument pro/against flirting, but rather against the cell phone:

"These days, cell phones do the flirting. In one survey, half of all mobile phone users have texted suggestive messages to keep things interesting while away from their amour. "

Why give single girls/guys the tool to enable them to flirt? HALF is alot! Why tempt the neshamos of klal yisroal by allowing them to have such tools when they aren't even married?

Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed that. I had a bit of time to write something. I am currently working on two posts, but I may go away after shabbos for a few days, so I have no idea when I'll post next...Have a great Shabbos and a great weekend !!


The Babysitter said...

That was interesting...
But you do know that Rabbi's don't allow teens to have cellphones for that exact reason!

Have a good shabbos, enjoy your weekend!

Jessica said...

I think people get the wrong idea about flirting. There's a difference between innocent flirting and blatantly sexual flirting. Flirting can be as subtle as saying "Wow, that's so interesting." I think your friend was probably thinking of the latter flirting (something along the lines of, "Is that a banana in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?").

frumskeptic said...

babysitter: I know, thats why I make fun of it. So ridiculous. lol... you can't just flirt on the cell phone unless you have someone to flirt with...if you have someone to flirt with with allt he crazy hours they keep you in school, the cell phone is really not going to stop "wrong doing" . lol.
thanx :)

Jessica: Lol...I know what my friend meant, its just that for her (as well as many frummies) they have everything extreme in their heads...very slippery slope. they got a kid from merely watching TV to becomming the biggest apikores in history..with shomer, they ahve from poking a kid in class to getting pregnant ... and from "innocent" flirting to poking to pregnancy... they think that "once you push the line..."

they do have a point, to an extent. But they never teach their kids that it takes a REALLLLY long time for this sort of stuff to happen, and it would only happen IF one wants it too.

The Babysitter said...

o, lol, I was being slow, but that is a very good point there, I didn't even think of that, there has to be SOMEONE to flirt with first.

You can compare that to the adam chava situation, adam said she can't touch the tree and it caused her to eat the apple. So here, if they tell you that you can't do little stuff that might not be an avaira, and people do that and see nothing happened and they don't feel guilty, then it can lead to other stuff.

הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"ט said...

ok; um, I think you're sort of streaching the meaning of flirting- according to my understanding of the word, it's generally discussing speaking to a member of the opposite sex in a way that's not just to gain information, but at least slightly shows that you're interested in each other. 'Flirting' on a date is an oxymoron. All that happens on dates is flirting (unless during ultra-orthodox dates neither side is saying anything they actually want to could be that's what you mean).

That is an important point to remember though, that America was a very chaste society until very recently...but now it's so far gone, that Americas' beginnings are almost inconsequential. In Afganistan girls are still having limbs dissevered for flirting with a guy on a cell phone (that punishment is obviously to suggest that such a thing just cannot exist in 'the kingdom of G-d').

As a 'pro' though, most guys like girls who are open, and freely speak their mind. Being too reserved usually freaks the guy out a bit.

Jacob Da Jew said...

As Jessica says, theres a difference in the matter.

Like today, I was talking to a supervisor in a large jewelry company and I mentioned to her that her French accent is appealing.

For all I know, she is fugly. but she sounds hot on the phone so why not?

Its good business.