Monday, November 3, 2008


A few girls at my sisters school were suspended.


Because they were caught cutting a weekly speech given by the principal herself.

My sister thinks the school is nuts. I think the school is nuts.

I generally think that cutting a class shows a sign of normalcy amongst students. Who wants to sit an entire year and NEVER cut a class? Especially if its boring?

I mean, my sister supposedly claims to have never cut class. And I beleive her cuz she's a super geek. But me? I woulda been suspended about 100 times. Especially in 10th grade when I just couldn't stand my english teacher.

And then in 11/12th grade when I knew I was already accepted into college and just couldn't care less about my grades anymore because I knew I'd pass the regents.


Isn't that like child labor to make them sit through such boredom ALL the time and expect them NOT to cut?


Child Ish Behavior said...

It is poetic justice, If you don't want to be here you don't have to be. But now it is on the school's terms. The school is taking back the balance of power that the student's messed up by cutting the speech. Now they have to leave on the school's terms.

frumskeptic said...

its crap.

YOu don't get suspended for cutting class. Atleast not at a first offense.

Its an attendence issue, not a suspension issue.

Jessica said...

Was it definitely a first offense? I remember at my school that if you were absent a certain amount of days (can't remember how many) without a note, then you got detention. And if you missed another after that detention -- without a note -- then you were suspended. It's not such an outlandish rule. If there's no consequence, what's going to keep them from skipping more often?

EsPes said...

ditto to jessica.
we got detention 1st. and then again. and then probably a 3rd time before we got suspended!
but there needs to be SOMETHING to stop them from skipping!

frumskeptic said...

jessica, es-

Yup. First offense. Sister was shocked as well. THey didnt like that it was the principals class they cut.

For non-principal classes its a quarter of a point from the average, but thats after like 2-3 times. (sister isn't sure, she doesn't cut)

Child Ish Behavior said...

The principal is a megalomaniac and cares more about his own honor than any else. The fact that they cut the principal's class and not any other was an affront on his holy honor.

Moshe said...

I was just about to say what childish said.
Delusions of grandeur.

AngryJew said...

I wouldn't cut the speech, I'd just sleep through it. If they suspend me for sleeping, THAT's crazy.

frumskeptic said...

I think cutting is more respectful than falling asleep.

I don't think these girls had expected to be suspended either way.

thinking... said...

**Isn't that like child labor to make them sit through such boredom ALL the time and expect them NOT to cut?**

Nope, not in the slightest. Your sister is in high school, where the girls are maturing into adults. One day, most will enter college and then the work force. As I'm sure you know, they'll have to encounter many boring classes, meetings, etc. Making them sit thru speeches they may not want to attend is teaching them some sort of discipline. I'm not saying they make the speeches boring/interesting on purpose, but it's important that the students realize they can't just skip whatever they don't like.
In addition, it's teaching them respect for the speaker. He/she spent time and effort writing up the speech for YOUR benefit, not his/hers, and it's basic decency to show some sort of gratitude.

Now I'm not saying I'd never cut a speech/class, but I'm not advocating it either.

frumskeptic said...

I cut alot in HS and in college.

I understand that at work, life is different.

If I didn't understand that, no amount of discipline training in HS would've helped me.

Mikeinmidwood said...

Suspension is going to far msybe a detention or a fine.

Ophir said...

They weren't suspended because they cut. They were suspended because they were stupid enough to get caught.

Lion of Zion said...

we got detention and had to pay a fine

David said...

Well, your sister should face the consequences of her actions. She had an obligation to be in a particular place at a particular time, and she failed to fulfill her obligation.

Personally, I think suspension is rather foolish; I'd have gone with detention.

DYS said...

Without knowing the facts of the case, whether there were prior offenses, etc, it's hard to say if the punishment fit teh crime, so to speak. But there should definitely be consequences for skipping classes or required speeches.

I never cut a class in all my years of school. Doing so is disrespectful, incites others to cut classes, and damages the students' chances at success in the class. If the class is boring, then the students should talk to their parents.

Teachers have a hard enough job with the lack of derech eretz rampant today among teenagers. Attitudes like yours just make it even harder. You want quality teachers who will teach interessting classes? Then don't encourage disrespect and misbehavior.

Anita, you're 20 years old now. Don't you think it's time to gain an adult perspective and leave the teenage attitude behind?

Moshe said...

DYS is absolutely right, skipping is unacceptable. You should sleep in class if it's boring and then you'll have more time at night to party.

AngryJew said...

Cutting is more respectful than falling asleep, but who cares? the penalty for falling asleep is probably someone verbally chiding you. The penalty for cutting is possible (in your case) suspension.

Who cares about respect? All that matters is the result. Besides the principal is a douchebag anyway. A guy who suspends his students for simply cutting a class which is also a first offense doesn't deserve my respect.

AngryJew said...

Also, if a student cuts class, why not let nature take its course? If a student cuts, their grades should suffer. Why should we punish the student further by prohibitting them from coming to school? This will only cause the student's grades to suffer more.

Suspension IMHO is the worst punishment a school can give. It puts excess strain on the parents, it forces the student who cut to miss out on yet another class and more if this is a multi-day suspension. Who knows if the parents even punish the student when they're home.

If you want to punish the student, give them community service. Make them serve in the cafeteria, or clean the bathrooms. Have them assist as a crossing guard or force them to take a remedial class, or detension.

If the student cuts, they have already punished themselves. Taking off grades or suspending them only makes the problem worse and does NOTHING to help it.

DYS said...

My previous comment was simply re: the validity of skipping and the neccesity of consequences. But Angryjew makes a good point about the counterproductivity of suspension vs. other punishments. Suspension should only be used when the student's presence is disruptive.

DYS said...

To expand on my earlier point: The lack of respect and derech eretz among today's teenagers drives away the best teachers, leaving teachers who are more boring, which in turn causes even less respect among students, etc, etc.

It's a vicious cycle.

Moshe said...

But this lack of respect is taught by their rabbis.

Child Ish Behavior said...

Angry Jew: You are right, to a point. If the story wasn't of the principal giving the speech. Presumably there was nothing of educational value being said. It was only a respect issue, imho.

mlevin said...

These girls cut the Principal's speach not a meer class. There are no tests. Their action shows a total lack of respect towards the principal.

Angry Jew - you're right suspension is a wrong punishment. Cleaning school bathrooms for a day would have been more appropriate. Not only does it punish the girls but it gives them a marketable skill and more respect for those who clean school bathrooms on daily basis.

PS. I think that falling asleep during speaches is also disrespectful and should warrant some kind of a punishment.

frumskeptic said...


"The lack of respect and derech eretz among today's teenagers drives away the best teachers, leaving teachers who are more boring, which in turn causes even less respect among students, etc, etc."

Seriously are you serious?

You mean today's teenagers are somehow less respectful than those in the 1960's who had a theme that specifically referred to NOT listening to authority or anyone above the age of 30?

Really, this isn't anything new. I don't know why you keep thinking this generation is any different.

We're just more technologically savvy.

NORMAL students cut class once in a while. Its not the crazy people who hate school or the rebellious type. It's students who just can't sit through certain classes or hate certain teachers.

Its common.

"Anita, you're 20 years old now. Don't you think it's time to gain an adult perspective and leave the teenage attitude behind?"

Any normal adult will agree that suspending someone after ONE offense of cutting is harsh.

I NEVER said there should be no consequence, but suspension is a damn crappy consequence. I don't care how important the speech was, or who was giving it. Students sholdn't feel as if they're in jail.

Seriously, even my Nazi school gave us three strikes before detention.

Lion of Zion said...

as a a tuition-paying parent, i'd be really pissed if my kid were suspended, regardless of the offense. i'd want my money back for the days he misses

RED!!!! said...

frunskeptic- didja go to prospect?

frumskeptic said...

red- a program in prospect, yes.