Sunday, April 13, 2008


My super-frummy friend, my sister, my like a sister friend (long story) and my mom were having a very interesting discussion, mostly for amusement purposes, on whether or not frum people today are messed up. We went into a whole long discussion on how if we're supposed to do everything based on minhaggim then we shouldn't be washing our strawberries with soap and water (grandma's had their soap made out of lard, not exactly the "kosher" substitute for bugs, now is it?), and checking lettuce through x-ray lights, and the fact that I'm pretty sure most of my great-grandparents did not wear hats and such. I also said that if we really wanted to be frummie based on minhaggim we should all be dressed in robes and turbans.

Somehow from that conversation we ended up discussing Moshe and Rambam and Sephardi Jews, and whether or not it makes sense when Sephardim wear black hats (I for one think its annoying, it makes me lose all respect for them, in Europe goyim wore hats, in Morocco and other such sephardi oriented countries they did not, so why should they wear them here?). So, a rebbetzin (not of the shul B"H), overheard part of the convo and commented to my mom "wow, girls having such deep conversations, girls are supposed to talk about hair, nails and boys"

Firstly, I don't think our conversation was that deep, considering most of it was done for amusement purposes; and secondly, WTF?

Really now, I pride myself on the fact that I don't only talk about hair, nails and boys. And my freind and sister do as well. My mom taught us to think. My sister-like -friend also prides herself on the fact that she thinks.

Before I get to the point of this blog, I will admit that yes we are girls, and we tend to discuss hair, nails and boys -and shopping-, but only cause we are girls, and somehow we have a license to do so.

So anyway, this rebbetzin is one of those women who cares more about shopping, her clothes, her nails and her sheitle more than she cares about her own kids. Really now, she is ok with the fact her kid cannot speak any language but Spanish (the language the nanny speaks)! So, for her to say something like that somehow implied she was more feminine than us, or more normal, I'm not really sure what she was implying but the fact that we shouldn't be having deep conversations, because thats not girly.

So my sister-like-friend (who despises her) was like "yes, that's because women who only think about hair, nails and boys are the ones that really are insecure about themselves so they have to focus on such stuff"

So the reb (not even realizing she was being personally attacked), was like "but I know so many women who only talk about that and they're really happy"

SO my sister-like-friend continued: "they're not happy, they're ignorant. They don't know why they're happy, they're told they're happy. Normal smart girls do not talk about hair and nails, they aren't that ignorant, they have more important things going on in their lives."

The reb was so dissed. I was trying so hard not to laugh. When we told my father the story, he was like "you shoulda said that women like that marry ignorant men as well" ('cause her husband is as much a reliable rabbi as I'm a 6'2 black man). hehe

was some fun stuff. :)

But anyway, this is the second time I was told that I should be talking about shallow things. My super frummy friend and I were infact together the first time I was told as well. I have no patience. I like to shop, and I like new clothes, and I like looking good. But there's only so much to talk about.

Like, yea, "the new skirt is brown and the new top is tan...OMG! it was on sale too!!!!" I the only female outside of my immediate group of friends that doesn't see this as an adequate convo?


outaline said...

I admit I'm a girly girl and I like to talk about girly things. However I always enjoy a deep conversation that makes me think more than a discussion about which nail polish is nicer. I have heard people say no to a shidduch because the girl is too smart. I never realized using your brain could be such a dangerous thing.

frumskeptic said...

Brain is dangerous. I sometimes question whether or not ignorance really is bliss.

On dates I put men in their place. Its awesome :) they never know how to react. My grandma yells at me!!!

Its hilarious, but really really bad. Especially when it comes to dating. Especially in the frum circles. Its wack. Modern men and BT (generally) tend to like smart girls, but the FFB's are the worst. The only thing in the girls head is suposed to be when she needs the next eye-brow waxing, manicure, and hair-cut. She's allowed to discuss shoes (preferably heeled). Its awful.

artie said...

now...who could it be that you're blogging about......hmmm...actually i think your post is no good. I shall agree with my spouse on this one. In my personal opinion, you took a sentence, ok, a possibly stupid sentence and converted it into your own agenda to bash two people that you had a previous disdain for.
So you were already biased even before you heard her speak, which in my opinion invalidates your post.

Jessica said...

I think the rebetzin was actually trying to compliment you guys. She seemed to be saying that most girls talk about shallow things, but you don't and she was impressed by that. It's hard to hear tone over a computer, but that's what I got from the story.

Anonymous said...

your fav. anony totally agrees with artie and jessica. surprise surprise

frumskeptic said...

Jessica: I wish she was complimenting us, but beleive me, she was not. One of her husbands "followers" (for lack of a better word) once told my super frummy friend and me to stop caring about "nonsense" and talk about what NORMAL girls talk about, such as (and she gave the examples herself) nail polish, hair, boys, shopping, shoes, and clothes.

This reb is KNOWN amongst my shul members to care more about clothes than her kids. Like KNOWN for this. and once, we were invited to someones house together, and her kid came over to her, wanted to get her attention, touched her skirt (cuz kid was like 2), and she flipped out "X DONT touch my skirt, it cost $300, and its real suede, if you need anything go to your dad"

Now, thats twisted. My mom never wore expensive clothes around me and my sis when we were little, niether does any other NORMAL women I know. So yea...she's a shallow idiot.

anon and artie: PUH-lease.

anon: u admit it yourself you have nothing in common with her. YOu're deep, she's not.

artie: I knew she was shallow beforethere was any "disdain" towards her.

Anonymous said...

< macho> Why do girls need to know things? When you're washing my clothes you should be thinking of what to make for dinner tonight. Leave the thinking to the homo-superiors. <\macho>

Lvnsm27 said...

FS, I prefer deep conversations about important stuff too, like the kind I have with some of my friends.

Btw, you should come to La, we are more relaxed frummies :)

Jessica said...

FS, Yeah, like I said, it's hard to hear tone over a computer so I could (and am) wrong about her intentions. Still, doesn't it say in perkei avos (or somewhere else Jewish) that when you embarrass someone it's like you murdered them? Sure, the rebetzin may have been being a brat, but your friends reaction seemed a bit over the top.

Orthoprax said...

Are you assuming that the conversations between guys are that much more sophisticated?


frumskeptic said...

Punk: lol

Jessica: The best part of the whole thing was (I guess I shoulda put it in) was that the Reb didn't realize she was being criticized. haha...she's not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. It was so awesome. She had nothing to reply. She considers herself an "intellectual" b/c she has a degree in art history, and supposedly that helps her sell Jewelry better than the next shmo (HA!). But she definitly doesnt bother her feminine head with things outside art, jewels, clothes and nails and other stereotypical female subjects. :)

hehe...People like that are my favorite sources of amusement. You could bash them over and over again and they wont get it. hehe.

Orthoprax: Nea, I have no such assumptions. I think both genders are equal in their shallowness. Just society tends to associate depth with men, for whatever reason.

Anonymous said...

I dont know what your talking about.

The Babysitter said...

I agree with you so much on this. I never liked talking about girly girly stuff. I like using my brain and having intellectual conversations. Their so much fun. I never got how girls in my class in HS had so much to talk about, when all they talked about was clothes and shopping...
And I've never heard a Reb say something like that before. If anything the opposite.
And orhtopax brought up a good point, for guys the equivalent of "hairs, nails.." is cars.

frumskeptic said...

babysitter: cars aren't the worst thing guys talk about...its when they start with sports. and Mets or Yankees nonsense...WHO CARES?!

zach said...

I like the ad on the right

Girls Wearing Thongs
Explore 10,000+ Clothing Choices. Save on Girls' Apparel!

Moshe said...

Lisa vs. Malibu Stacy
"I wish they taught shopping at school"
"Let's bake cookies for the boys"
"Don't ask me. I'm just a girl"
"Now let's forget our troubles with a big bowl of strawberry ice cream"

btw, the only thing worse than guys talking about Yankees and Mets, is girls talking about Yankees and Mets.

frumskeptic said...

Moshe: "btw, the only thing worse than guys talking about Yankees and Mets, is girls talking about Yankees and Mets."

Nea. Equally as stupid.

abandoning eden said...

I think that many people in the jewish community encourage women to only think about nails and hair and clothes, because once you start actually thinking about the crap they are feeding you, you will realize that it's a bunch of crap designed to keep women down.

there are plenty of very intelligent women out there. Heck, women are more likely to go to both college and grad school, and at my ivy league phd program, 80% of the people in my program are women. Unfortunately within the OJ community, showing that you're intelligent is not an encouraged trait in women- if women are seen as being as smart at men it would destroy the social order, which is highly related to gender hierarchies.

Moshe said...

Burn her at the stake!