Thursday, September 18, 2008

Education

My family and I were having an ongoing argument with my rabbi on education. I hadn't thought about writing about it until today, when "the babysitter" used an argument very much similar to what my rabbi would say when she commented on my previous post. She said:


1-Parents complain that their kids are having too much homework as it is, imagine if they would start learning all these difficult stuff at an early age. It takes the fun out of youth. Why do these kids need to be geniuses at such a young age? So that they can impress everyone with their knowledge? till they are old enough to apply the knowledge there's no need to bombard them with physics, algebra and other stuff. Their mind's might not even be able to grasp it at that age and they will get turned off from it young, instead of if the school waits till their older and ready then they will be more accepting of the knowledge and they will understand it better.

2- Why would you want the child to feel like a failure? Kids know on their own what they think a good grade is. For many they set the standards individually, everyone still wants an A even if the passing grade is a 65. There's still the same goal. Just for those that aren't capable of doing better they don't feel like failures so long as they pass 65. Sounds good to me.

Why do these kids need to be geniuses at such a young age? So that they can impress everyone with their knowledge

I'll argue her points in reverse order; Here it goes:

"Kids know on their own what they think a good grade is."
A good grade isn't a matter of opinion.
A is an excellent grade.
B is still good
C is average/OK, should really work harder
D is bad, you really need to work harder
F is STOP being lazy or get a damn tutor or else you'll get kicked out.

There is no room for opinion. Once you put opinion into what a good grade is, education sucks. They have things similar too the Flynn Effect to ensure that these remain the same no matter what.
1+1= 2. If your kid doesn't get it, their opinion doesn't matter. Look at the education system today they are so concerned with children's feelings that children are complete morons when they leave HS. Tell the kid how it is, 'cause in the real world, their bosses sure as hell won't be nice and gentle and care about their opinions. Kids need to grow up.


“Just for those that aren't capable of doing better they don't feel like failures so long as they pass 65.”


Terrible point. Those who aren't capable of doing better should be in a lower level class; just like those who get A's easily should be in a higher class level. Or else those who always fail will feel like failures and those who always get A's will be bored and actually begin to fail out of boredom (Albert Einstein).


“Parents complain that their kids are having too much homework as it is, imagine if they would start learning all these difficult stuff at an early age.”


Don't have to imagine. I've been there. Felt like I was actually doing things in life. It was a regular school (we had parties, dances) yet we were challenged academically every day.


My school had three gifted programs
a) Nova- passing was a 75, for math passing was 85.
b) Magnet- passing was 80 and for math 90.
c) CIG- I think the same passing as magnet, but they had different class structure. Was considered better.

In 6th grade there were 4 Nova classes, 8 magnet, and 4 CIG = 16 gifted classes
In 7th grade there were 3 Nova classes, 6 magnet, and 3 CIG = 12 gifted classes
In 8th grade there were 3 Nova classes, 5 magnet, and 2 CIG = 10 gifted classes

why the decline? Because the kids couldn't handle it and left. Had we been babied, the program wouldn't have been gifted (kind of like the point child ish made with not having to accept everyone).


“It takes the fun out of youth.”


I had a blast in JHS. The teachers gave us group activities and interesting research projects, after reading Flowers for Algernon our midterm was a blob of ink and we had to discuss what we saw, and incorporate a few book sources in our essay, and later we had an in-class assignment to write an essay in which everything was supposed to be misspelled. Which was fun, yet it showed us how hard it must have been for the author to misspell just about everything (read the book summary to know why).

I even once begged my parents not to schedule a ski trip on a school day because we were going to do something fun and I didn't want to miss it.

“Why do these kids need to be geniuses at such a young age? So that they can impress everyone with their knowledge?”


a- Kids need to develop their intellect. You can't say kids should just do average. A developing intellect causes things like creativity (which is the second level of pleasure according to the 5 Levels of Pleasure article on aish). Your kid isn't going to develop anything if you send him to a school with heterogeneous classes which are unlikely to properly challenge him. S/he will need to be appropriately challenged in order to develop anything.

b- Not everyone smart shows it off, many have intellectual pursuits and tend to associate with fellow geniuses, while others are in disguise as "average" people (whatever that can mean). Not everyone brilliant shows it off. Knowledge is power and it's a personal goal for many people. You start your kid young, they may end up the next Hillel (he was 18). I'm sure Hillel wasn't bored during his youth.

“ 'til they are old enough to apply the knowledge there's no need to bombard them with physics, algebra and other stuff. Their mind's might not even be able to grasp it at that age and they will get turned off from it young, instead of if the school waits till their older and ready then they will be more accepting of the knowledge and they will understand it better.”

a) Umm...the valedictorian and salutatorian completed the 8th grade with...
- Sequential 1,2,3 regents (that's math A and B in today's)
- Earth Science Regent
- Living Environment/Biology Regent
- 9th grade English
- A year of HS Spanish/French

Then there was one class (of about 30 kids) that finished the same but only up to Sequential 2.
Then there was my class and one other class that finished only up to Sequential one and didn't do the bio regent yet held onto John's Hopkins math, and the rest had teacher taught math. And Nova didn't take the Earth Science regent or have Johns Hopkins math.

b) I've been playing around on facebook, and seems to me that many of the students are now in top tier universities (Harvard, Cornell, Duke, Yale, BU), so I highly doubt any of them are any less accepting of knowledge, or are any less able to grasp it than those who got it at a later age.

c) basically I'm advocating levels. If their minds aren't able to grasp it, they wouldn't have been accepted into that class to begin with.

******

Generally on education:

One of the articles I linked to below mentioned how President Bush's No Child Left Behind Act failed the "geniuses" because the funds that were generally used towards gifted programs were taken to fund special programs, like tutoring for the "at risk" students. Which I found interesting, because the school I went to (Andries Hudde JHS/IS 240) currently does not hold the same reputation as it did during the years I was there (I graduated '01) as well as the reputations of the other schools that held such programs. Because while its nice to help the "at risk" kids, it shouldn't be at the cost of denying the smart kids of what they deserve, and they deserve good education.

In HS we had "modified" exams for the girls who weren't doing so well. I don't understand that. Why would you put the girls who cannot grasp the information in the same way as the girls who could into the same class?

I remember once in Yahadus class (I took that with the mainstreamed girls) I kept getting 1's and 2's out of 10, because I couldn't memorize chazals. Then when we were on the topic of Shabbos (always fascinated me) I got a 6 and the teacher wrote "tov" on top. I came home and was like "tov?!?" And I stopped bothering to do anything for that class. A 6 was in no way "tov" she could have written "great progress", no need for "tov". I even told my rabbi, "why bother, they think its good anyway"...and sure enough she passed me overall. My rabbi got into a whole argument 'you got to do this for yourself" blah blah myself. For myself I'd want the challenge of her telling me "great progress, I think you can do better" and then I'd try to do better. For myself I KNOW a 6 is not good; because of what the grade system represents. Once you tamper with grading because of the student as a person/individual (not just as a student) it loses its purpose, and there goes...crappy education. Again, you need class levels of the same type of "individual". In this type of class my "6" would've probably been a B+/A-. But in the mixed class I was in, a 6 was a D-, because it was comparitive.

In JHS we had some students who weren't able to handle Johns Hopkins math (which meant self-paced math) so they had teacher taught math. We had different class levels for each type of learning. And we didn't have a monolithic curriculum where we took a test and then moved on, we had a curriculum that was class paced (hence the levels) so we didn't take exams unless the class was ready and felt they knew the material. If we still failed, we'd have a retake, we wouldn't just move on and take tutoring on the side, because that wouldn't help, because who would have time to get a tutor if they're already learning something new? IF it were a few individuals that failed, they would have no choice but take tutoring, but generally, it wasn't a norm.

******

What do they say gohenim is? It's when Hashem shows you what you could have been, your potential. If you settle for "necessary" in anything, you'll never care to have anything more. How will you reach your potential?

******


I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.-- Galileo Galilei

Recommended Reads

"Teaching to the New Test"

"Assessing Education"

"Are we Failing our Genuises?"

29 comments:

Lvnsm27 said...

""Those who aren't capable of doing better should be in a lower level class; just like those who get A's easily should be in a higher class level""

I agree, excellent points you make in your post

DYS said...

Their mind's might not even be able to grasp it at that age

Kind of ironic, Babysitter. You're talking about too much education, yet you're using the possessive (mind's) when you meant the plural (minds.)

No offense - a lot of people do it - it just drives me crazy. Pet peeve of mine. (Though if you mined all of my comments on every blog out there, I can't swear that I've never done it when typing fast.) What drives me crazy specifically is when people do it consistently because they are unaware of the rules of proper grammar.

DYS said...

The improper use of apostrophe's can be very annoying. Its wrong that individual's have not learned proper grammar in their school's. Perhaps those schools curriculum's need to be revised.

Moshe said...

I dont think a re-vision is gonna help. The only way too learn good grammars by lotsa reading. Thats my position and Im sticking buy it.

Joodah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joodah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joodah said...

What about those classes where teachers make it next to impossible to receive an A. I remember certain classes in college where the teacher would give a disclaimer on day 1 saying "i rarely give A's, there's a good chance no one will get one."

I have noticed in my work with kids (age 9-14) that there is a lack of realization in "consequence for one's actions". If you don't study, you will fail. If you stay up till 4 in the morning, you will not be awake the next day. If you have unprotected sex, you risk getting someone pregnant. IMHO adolescents are not getting this education, and it leaks into their study habits.

I agree that kids need to be constantly challenged instead of coddled, but in order for them to succeed, they need to be motivated. There is little I detest more than a classroom run by a boring, apathetic teacher who shows as much passion for the subject they're teaching as a vegetable. (Like the teacher in Charlie Brown cartoons 'wa wa wa wa wa, yes ma'am, no ma'am).

I have noticed that there is a large disparity in discipline in the home. When we discipline our kids to sit down and study after school instead of running straight to their favorite cartoons or video games, we give them the tools to succeed in school.

The Babysitter said...

wow it is long, I shall read it now.

The Babysitter said...

About the Grades, for some people it's not possible for them to get an A or B, and for them struggling to get a C is great. That's why there's the whole effort part. It's hard to understand, since for most people it goes the way you described it. There are those that if they get in the 90's will drive themselves crazy cause they can really get a 100. So it is based on what the students think.

"1+1= 2. If your kid doesn't get it, their opinion doesn't matter."

Your right in that their opinion doesn't change the answer. But if they don't understand that then their special ed and therefore cannot do regular jobs. So they wouldn't come into that situation you described.

I only see the whole caring about your feelings by hebrew subjects. In boys school's they have Aleph Bais Gimmel classes to better serve the students, so that those that aren't such great learners can still get a 100, it's geared towards their level. Then even in a regular class, teachers will accommodate and not give hebrew tests to those that have a hard time with it. Are you saying that the shouldn't do that?

Exactly, you just agreed with my whole grade point. I think I just wasted my paragraph above, but since I already typed it out, I'll keep it.

how come math had higher grades if that's usually the difficult one?

Ok that system sounds great if you can get people to pay for it. But I would see it as a luxury and not a necessity. If a kid is so smart and can't sit still then he can skip a few grades, which I don't really think is so smart cause they loose the social aspect of being with kids their age.

Ok sounds like you had fun, that you did projects and stuff. Just the way I envisioned a genius academic driven class, was to see it as just learning crazy long formulas and having boring monologue lectures a whole day, with just tons of memorizing to do, and no time for recess, or other activities.

cool, you read the 5 levels of pleasure!

Of course creativity is important, but it usually comes from time to oneself, when not being given word for words what to learn. If a student is given certain material with everything taught out then there is not thinking involved, its just absorbing the information. If a student is in a regular class where they don't learn everything, then the child can start thinking for himself and being creative and figuring out new stuff on his own which develops his intellect.

Your right they can associate with other geniuses. All I'm saying is it's not for everyone. There's no reason to make every child a genius, only those that have it in them. That is all. So in reality I do agree with your point.

a) ok great for them to be able to do that, but it's not for everyone. And btw, if your talking about John Hopkins, then I'm surprised, because you speak of it in such a high way, but yet I know someone who is a prof there for math, and he teaches remedial, and he says the people there are so...unsmart.

b)right, so these people are geniuses that are meant to be geniuses. I don't think my point was that you can't have these school's for these people. All I was saying was that the average kid can't be like that.

c)exactly, so levels are good.

The way you describe the no child left behind makes it sound like taking from the rich to give to the poor. So yea, the smart ones shouldn't loose out on the expense of the ones who need the help.

For some to be told "you can do better" will turn them off. and being told "good" will turn them on, to receive 'greats" and "excellents". People react differently so you can't say what they should or shouldn't write.

I mentioned earlier about the classes that have different levels. Girls school's don't have that, but in a way there's pros and cons. Girls are more emotional, so they may get offended at being put in a lower level. They will say they can do better, when they really can't and then they loose out. So this way they don't get embarrassed and yet are serviced to their level.

Why should the whole class be behind because of some kids that aren't grasping the material? doesn't follow with what you said earlier up, about no child left behind.

potential in spiritual terms, about doing mitzvos and such, not about how high of a degree you got.

I think intellect is great, which is why so many people are using their brains and intellect and LEARNING!

The Babysitter said...

DYS: I don't edit my comments, so I make a lot of grammatical errors. I feel so long as a person focuses on the content, then the grammar doesn't matter so much, so long as it is clear enough to be read.

I know the rules of proper grammar, I just might not necessarily apply them.

Grammar is a very annoying subject, not many teachers want to teach it, and not many students want to learn it.

Moshe: actually it's funny you say that. Because I remember in like 5th grade my teacher asked a question, she asked if anyone knew what [ ] <--- those are, she said you would only know if you read books. I never liked reading books when I was young, I raised my hand and I was able to answer her. I forgot how I knew the answer, but I remembered knowing it and that I was able to shtuch her out.

Joodah: thanx for reminding me about that. FrumSkeptic, I will get to that later.

very true with what you said about kids not realizing the consequences. What's IMHO? I keep seeing it and forget to ask.

True points.

btw, a good quote:
"Lecture: An art of transferring information from the notes of the
Lecturer to the notes of the students without passing through the minds of either"

The Babysitter said...

FrumSkeptic: About what Joodah said here:

"What about those classes where teachers make it next to impossible to receive an A."

That's another thing, that's what I meant when I made the whole comment last time. In those smart schools they may make it hard for kids to get A's even if they deserve it. I had a math teacher in HS where lots of people didn't do well. 70's was considered good already. So I always thought wow she's so smart, and everything. But then I was talking to her son in law, and he said you may be brilliant and a genius, but what's the point in giving such hard tests, if kids aren't doing well then it shows your not a good teacher. If your a good teacher the students should be getting 100's!

I don't know if any prof of yours every said this, but one prof told us that the college has a rule that you can only give out a certain amount of every letter. So even if kids deserve an "A" he can only give out a certain amount, so others who deserve it won't get it. And that there has to be a certain amount of failing grades. How ridiculous is that? That there NEEDS to be feeling grades. Why is that a necessity?

The Babysitter said...

Now if you don't want to read all those long megilla's I'lll summarize.

Basically I agree that there should be levels and that smart people shouldn't be denied a chance to develop their smartness. Only thing was that, all the other people shouldn't be forced to be geniuses if their not capable. Zeh Hu!

mlevin said...

Babysitter - genious cannot be forced, it's inborn. You were either born smart or you weren't. If you were born smart and never developed it, than you never reached your full potential. Forcing smart children to sit through regular class equals to stumping their developement.

frumskeptic said...

joodah- you make an excellent point. But that goes more for who you hire as a teacher than the system. If the goal is to institute the system, you will hire teachers who will abide by it.

In JHS my 6th grade history teacher was a complete moron. Everyone hated her. It was her first year teaching. THe parents called the school, she got fired.

frumskeptic said...

Babysitter- I stronly recommend you read the articles I linked to at the end of my post.


"About the Grades, for some people it's not possible for them to get an A or B, and for them struggling to get a C is great..."
Then you missed the point on levels. if they had to STRUGGLE to get an A they wouldn't be in that class. A C is never great. is average. Meaning it should be the grade you get without doing anything, and relying on basic. A lil study B, real study, A.

"since I already typed it out, I'll keep it.

"how come math had higher grades if that's usually the difficult one?"
Our school was focused on math. We had math every day, and double period 2/3 times a week depending on the semester.

"Ok that system sounds great if you can get people to pay for it."
Tuition should pay for decent education. or SCHOOLS should have reputations taht actualy go beyond the middos.

"If a kid is so smart and can't sit still then he can skip a few grades, which I don't really think is so smart cause they loose the social aspect of being with kids their age. "
Read the article "Are we failing our genuises" i linked too. They claimed that is untrue about the socialization. But generally, even if it is, a kid will not be able to socialize anymore with the intellectually inferior students at his age level. He'd get easily frustrated by their slowness.

"Just the way I envisioned a genius academic driven class, was to see it as just learning crazy long formulas and having boring monologue lectures a whole day,"
Thats why its in your imagination, and not reality.

"with just tons of memorizing to do, and no time for recess, or other activities. "
Memorizing is for dumbies. Real education is explaination. Any good math teacher will explain how the formula's were derived before giving them to you.

"Of course creativity is important, but it usually comes from time to oneself, when not being given word for words what to learn."
Thats the thing you're missing. In the dumb schools you're always told to memorize, spit back, and thats it. In the smart schools you're never given "word for word" anything.

"Your right they can associate with other geniuses. All I'm saying is it's not for everyone. There's no reason to make every child a genius, only those that have it in them."
Genuises aren't made. If you're smart enough, you'll develop it. If you're not, you'll remain on a level.


"And btw, if your talking about John Hopkins, then I'm surprised, because you speak of it in such a high way, but yet I know someone who is a prof there for math, and he teaches remedial, and he says the people there are so...unsmart."

It was a university program at a JUNIOR HS. You can't get unsmart with that. PLUS, you mentioned he was teaching REMEDIAL. well...duh they're unsmart.

"average kid can't be like that"
How do you know he's average if schools teach for only the average?

"The way you describe the no child left behind makes it sound like taking from the rich to give to the poor. So yea, the smart ones shouldn't loose out on the expense of the ones who need the help. "
Thats kinda how it is. Read the "Are we failing our genuises" article.

"For some to be told "you can do better" will turn them off"

How do you get by in life if you can't handle constructive criticism?

"and being told "good" will turn them on"
You're babying students. Life is tough.

"Girls are more emotional, so they may get offended at being put in a lower level."
I cry at EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING. I'm like a frikkin emotional rollar coaster. But I'd prefer to be told the truth rather than spared my feelings only to find out later I never actually understood anything.

"embarrassed"

I hate that word. Why be embarrassed of anything aside from not trying? 8th grade spansih teacher used to read our exam marks outloud. I didn't do so well in spanish, but I did realy well in math. So when I was hearing the "low" marks in spanish, I was ahead of everyone in math (me and this boy were in competition on who would finish each chapter first, was fun). So it worked out. I was better at math than at language. I wasn't embarrassd. who cares.

"Why should the whole class be behind because of some kids that aren't grasping the material? doesn't follow with what you said earlier up, about no child left behind."

What? the classees were CLASS PACED, but already leveled. SO it worked out, whereas with no child left behind there are no levels and everyone moves on. Two TOTALLY different things.

"potential in spiritual terms, about doing mitzvos and such, not about how high of a degree you got."
A degree often represents intellect. You cannot just fuly learn, you need to earn a parnasa. Why settle for a crappy pay, when you can get soemthing better. You can do so much more spiritually, you can afford to travel, you can afford better food, you can afford nicer living accomadations. It doens't go against Torah. They are compatible. All the while you can LEARN as well. NOw thats what I call intellect.

frumskeptic said...

"I don't know if any prof of yours every said this, but one prof told us that the college has a rule that you can only give out a certain amount of every letter. So even if kids deserve an "A" he can only give out a certain amount, so others who deserve it won't get it. And that there has to be a certain amount of failing grades. How ridiculous is that? That there NEEDS to be feeling grades. Why is that a necessity?"

Never heard that. Ever. IF thats true, it may be only in your major.

sporadicintelligence said...

As a teacher, I'd like to chime in.

Children are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. And if you tell them "good" when it's not, they'll settle for good, because most of them are just seeking your approval.

So, challenge them. Don't aim to teach the middle of the class, teach the highest level, and bring the rest of the students up.

Education in the Bais Yaakov/Yeshiva system is all spoonfed. Educators need to read Vygotsky and revamp their curriculum!!!

I taught a story today that my principal was very hesitant to approve.

"It's weird, I don't get it" is what she said (she's old school that thinks she up-tp-date).

I did it, and my students LOVED it...I would say go figure, but it's not. I gave it to them because I know it was challenging, but once you "get" it, it's great!

Also, I read a poem a day to my students. Most of my students don't know the first thing about poems, they think it has to rhyme, and be about flowers. The first few poems I read only a few kids got, or enjoyed. They look forward to it now...Give it to them, they'll rise to the occasion.

Also, I don't do feelings. Not that I'm cruel and inconsiderate, but I don't do things just to make them feel better and spare the egos. Students like when you're honest with them. They see righ t through you, the same way you see through them.

frumskeptic said...

sporadic intelligence- :-). You just made me so happy with that comment. :-)

sporadicintelligence said...

Not a problem :)

Which part in particular?

frumskeptic said...

SI- because you're a teacher, and what you said was so brilliantly written and agreed with me, which is cool, since you're awesome. :)

sporadicintelligence said...

You flatter me.
But thanks.

Joodah said...

IMHO - In My Humble Opinion.

The Babysitter said...

Just as a btw, you might find this interesting: Get a free college education online

FrumSkeptic: I will check out your links after I read your comments.

Sopardic Intelligence: Your right in what you said, that makes sense. But there is a difference between challenging them and teaching them stuff that will bore them and that they find gibberish. In my HS there was an option for some to not have to take Math B because they found it too hard, so they took something called business math instead. They obviously got a lesser of a diploma, but for them they weren't up to the challenge. They just saw math as something they want to avoid like the plague. If they were to sit in the math class they would just disrupt the class for everyone else and they wouldn't learn anything, so here they get to practice some addition skills without using a calculator. Although many girls might have just chosen business math because they were lazy, so in that sense I don't think it was such a good idea. But anyways, about your poems, that's a smart thing, because then the students over time can get used to it and learn to figure out what poems mean. If you practice with anything for a long time then you eventually understand it.

FrumSkeptic: ok, so I misunderstood what you said about the grades in your post. But I agree with you, that makes sense.

Ok, so the way you explain it in reality makes it sound great!

"Memorizing is for dumbies. Real education is explanation"

Very true, when we had quizes once a week on the parsha, we had to look up the answers in the chumash and then the quiz would be on those questions. So some people just memorized the questions with the answers from copying other peoples answers. Some would even memorize the numbers of the answers to the matching from having previous years quizes to look at. I always looked up the answer in the chummash and understood the answer so that this way it would help me remember. Even in general the things that I remember better are stuff I understand. So your right a good teacher will explain things. I haven't thought that in genius school's they did that. I thought they would assume everyone had brains to figure it all out right away in a second.

We didn't have spit back, they made us think and write essays and long answers and stuff. It's only in lower grades that there was fill in the blanks.

Not everyone is strong to be able to handle it. Some might even be the other extreme and just shrug it off and not care, they will just rip up the bad mark, throw it away.

Life may be tough, but why do you have to make it tougher? I'm not saying everyone should be treated this way. But its a psychological thing where its a method that works for them. It's like doing something for a reward and then ding it for yourself. My father used to pay me for getting good marks on my tests. I would get a dollar if it was over 90. In college he stopped with that cause he figured I'm old enough to know to do well on my own, and that incentive I had when I was younger helped, it worked, cause now I want to do well on my own. Although really the incentive was started for my other siblings, I never had a hard time with school, but since he was giving money to my brothers he had to give to me too. Although even if you may say that its babying, and that I shouldn't have got it just because my brothers were getting it. It's still a good way to get money, instead of my father paying me an allowance, let him just pay me for my test marks and he will accomplish 2 things, 1 giving me the money, 2 I felt ok with accepting the money because it was earned.

Some people really care about their marks. You may not be sensitive to it, I don't care that much either, but some really do. Girl's cry about it, and they will hold a grudge against the teacher forever if the teacher says their mark out loud.

Yea, living a comfortable good life is good. But it's still a luxury.

Perhaps its only in my major that a prof said that. I'll look it up. But at least you agree that its ridiculous.

The Babysitter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Babysitter said...

FrumSkeptic: today I was talking to some former HS'ers and 2 of them are teachers in Achiezer. They were telling stories of how their kids are, and one thing I noticed was that the kids were very creative. One did science experiments with them where the girls did such creative ideas. Another had the girls write stories of "A day in the life of.." a certain historic date, and she said that the girls came up with such amazing stuff. She also said that one kid who usually doesn't do so well with homework and stuff, does very well with the creative stuff.

Anyways these kids sounded adorable. Perhaps because they are more modern and worldly they are more creative?

sporadicintelligence said...

I don't know if more "modern" kids are more creative by nature. But more frum children are less inclined to be creative due to the censoring environment that BY schools have.

I was teaching poetry one day and my students were all into it, giving different interpretations, ideas, getting into philosophical discussions, and then the principal walked in to observe my class. You should have seen how FAST my girls shut down.

frumskeptic said...

babysitter- what sporadic intelligence said makes alot of sense.

SI- you're so intune with the way your kids are, its great. Wanna open a school together ? lol

The Babysitter said...

Sporadic Intelligence: that makes sense.

FrumSkeptic: I would love to see how that school turns out. Would be really interesting. Would have the perfect balance. :-)

rebecca said...

This Is Just to Say

I have eaten

the plums

that were in

the icebox

 

and which

you were probably

saving

for breakfast

 

Forgive me

they were delicious

so sweet

and so cold

-----------bymaple story account