I had a few chassidish teachers in HS. One of them was more "chassidish" of them all. I don't remember what sect she was from, but she never wore a sheital, and it seemed as if she had no hair under her turban-like hat (if that gives anything away). She was completely and totally frummy for our school, and some of the things she said just made us laugh. I will share a few things she said here.
The first thing she said was on dating. She was telling us all about how her father's mother purposely walked the path she knew girls would take to seminary or to work and ask them for help (like for directions to get somewhere or something). With this, she would evaluate the girl. Say the girl just gives directions and doesn't walk her to her location, she will be less likely to get a sit-in with her son. If the girl doesn't even stop, she won't get a sit-in, and if the girl leads her to the location, even though she'll know she'll be late or just inconvenienced by the detour, she'd definitly get a sit-in and most likely marry the son. And well, her mother passed the test.
The teacher continued on saying that mere 18 year olds are not mature enough to choose their own husbands, which is why the parents have to be involved.
I shot back "If she's not mature enough to choose her own husband, than why is she mature enough to get married that young?"
And the teacher did the typical - She won't know what she needs until she's already been married, but her parents know, so they choose.
****
Another time we were discussing Kolel. Most of the time chassidim are against full-time learning. But I guess our teacher decided to defend them. She was saying "well like, if a young couple in the secular world were to get married while still in college, their parents would continue on paying their college tuition, so in the frum world, the parents pay for kolel"
Boy did the girls in my class attack her. We told her our parents would be like "you're ready to get married? Then you're ready to afford your own tuition or take out a loan"
She was totally unaware of the fact that secular parents, in majority of cases, do NOT pay their child's tuition after marraige, and in many cases even before marraige, the child just takes out a loan.
***
Another time the chassidish teacher was teaching us all about kivud av v'eim. She then mentioned that there was a halacha that a child may not spill their parents blood, or hurt them in anyway, and if they do, the punishment is death.
One day she and her son were working on an art project. The project required the use of needles, and her son accidently stabbed her on her finger and she bled a bit. He started crying apologetically. She said that she had to call the Rabbi for the loophole on not punishing her kid with death!
I forgot what the loophole was, but when a few girls in class were like "the halacha is in regards to PURPOSEFUL pain to the parents, not accidental pain during an art project" the teacher was like "No, the halacha qualifies for accidents as well."
I don't remember the reason the Rebbe gave as to why she didn't have to sentence her kid to death, but it was a rather far-fetched loophole.
What planet did my teacher live on? They say Boro Park is on earth, but I'm not quite sure. People need to use common sense.
If Halacha said anything about an accidental injury towards a parent must resort to death, very very few NORMAL, mentally capable human beings would remain frum.
18 comments:
I shot back "If she's not mature enough to choose her own husband, than why is she mature enough to get married that young?"
My wife went to Bais Yaakov (not in NY) for a number of years, and always wondered how a bunch of girls who weren't trusted to make their own decisions about ANYTHING (the school had spies at the 7-11 to catch girls when they went to buy a slurpy) were expected to be mothers within a year.
oy.
Anonymous - what is wrong with slurpies?
what is wrong with slurpies?
Hell if I know. Ask the ones who sent the spies.
hahahha thanks, i just had a good laugh
*Sigh* I've said many times before and I'll say it once again: The only thing marriage solves is being single. You don't become more independent, creative, or smarter once you leave the yichud room.
anonymous: Slurpee spies is a new one. :). Your poor wife.
frummy: REALLY!?!? :-p
:P
(YaLaNa)
Well, if she was considering killing (or, more accurately, applying the death penalty to) her son for accidentally pricking her, I should hope her husband puts his tefillin right between his eyes. Because, you know, the passuk says that too.
Heh, the kid was just lucky there weren't two shomer shabbos witnesses around.
"She said that she had to call the Rabbi for the loophole on not punishing her kid with death!"
what? the parent doesn't carry out the capitol punishment. and we haven't had capitol punishment for almost 2000 years anyway.
Weird teacher. Who would actually scare her son into thinking he would get killed, unless she actually thought he would.
LS"D
Di kenst nisht fin velcher Chassidis kimt dyne Morah Moron? Zi iz fin inzere Chassidis, Chassidis Creedmoor! creedmoorer.blogspot.com. Nor mir halten vus dem arba missois byze din zenen mekiyem in inzerer teg!
LOZ- I have no idea what this lady was thinking. She was a crazy nut job.
All I know is that she DID go to the Rav and ask about how to punish her child. Maybe the Rav told her that since we don't have a Beis DIn we won't kill the kid, but she was convinced that it was HALACHA even if he did it by accident.
NO idea. The lady was crazy.
We did have alot of fun with her. Such interesting discussions, and since she wasn't used to such a modern crowd, she didn't catch our jokes or tricks. :-). Though I Really do think kiruv programs should choose their staff wiser.
FrumSkeptic: 1) I always like helping people, so I would love for that to be a criteria.
Perhaps mature isn't the right word. Maybe knowledgeable. They don't have experience, so they need their parents help on what's important. While they can still be mature to be able to handle a married life. Maturity has nothing to do with age, there are married older people that I think are immature.
2)I think if the parents are the type to pay then they'll pay for anything. I have a friend who married a kollel guy and she had to pay for her college tuition, and now she even had to pay for a lot of her wedding expenses, and I doubt her parents will be able to support her. But I think her husband will work soon, just the first few years or something he is learning.
3)No matter what, even if on purpose it never means it's in our hands to punish with death, that's just ridiculous. But it could be that even if it was a mistake the child is still responsible. After all, a child isn't supposed to stake out a splinter from a parent if it will cause them to bleed, or to be the parents doctor, unless it's a last resort.
FrumSkeptic: Also, a few things I forgot to mention before.
About Bias and newspapers, what about Mishpacha? good news paper source?
Then about choices and decisions, I was reading a story in Mishpacha or one of these magazines, a few weeks ago, and it spoke about a girl who always found it hard to make decisions. That she couldn't decide what color rubberbands to get, or which notebook or stuff like that. In married life you have to, to decide over what refrigerator to get, what color paint, there are so many choices for every decision in life that you have to make, it's normal to not be able to make a final decision. Anways, the point of the story was that at the end, her mother asked her to do a favor and help watch the kids instead of doing some school social thing, since she needed her help and it said how she did it right away, that it was the quickest decision she made. So perhaps if something is so important to you, and you value it, then no matter how indecisive you are, then you will figure out what to do. So could be, these people are so sure of their kollel lives, that it's not even a decision for them to make.
Anonymous: making own decisions and trust are 2 separate things. I do feel trust is very important in order to let go.
Mlevin: nothing wrong with slurpies, just that 7-11 is seen as a hang out, so...
FrumSkeptic: in this case I agree with you, that kiruv programs should choose their staff more wisely, perhaps they were hoping to inspire you with her extreme devotion to Judiasm, but it obviously didn't work.
"They don't have experience, so they need their parents help on what's important. "
-Experience can be had. Just allow mixed socialization. These damn chumras rob people of normal lives.
- Parents opinions are obviously important, I wouldn't want to marry someone my parents hated. But thats totally different from having them CHOOSE the guy!
"Mishpacha"
Nope. NOthing super frummy would qualify as a good newspaper source. They only provide news that makes frummies look good and they block out anything else important (you know, the child molester stuff). The Jewish Press I like for reliable stuff. But well..thats me, and I confirm everything anyway.
"So could be, these people are so sure of their kollel lives, that it's not even a decision for them to make."
These people are so brainwashed solid, they don't make the decisions.
They don't know what they're getting themselves into. They kvetch about the fact their parents are supporting them and then saying they have to swallow their pride in the name of Torah.
I wonder what it would have been like in modern medicine if Rambam learned full time, or Ramban.
"it's normal to not be able to make a final decision. "
No its NOT normal. They actually have self-help books on the subject. It is probably only "normal" in the frum community where since birth you never had to make decisions. YOur life was all uniformed so you turn into everyone else and fit into the perfect box...
I know I'm answering for anonymous, but I hope he forgives me...
"making own decisions and trust are 2 separate things. I do feel trust is very important in order to let go. "
No, they go hand in hand. If your parents raised you right, and feel you are mature and intelligent enough, they should be able to leave you to make your own decisions- especially on something as important as marraige- Infact they have to learn when to let go, or else you'll never know how to make your decisions. If they make the decision on who to marry for you, how the heck you gonna learn to make any other serious decision in your life (ie, say your hubby needs to move somewhere with his job, do you take it, or not, thats a decision btwn you and him, not you, him, parents, inlaws, grandparents... etc)
"kiruv school"
I'm so anti commercial kiruv I can't even describe it. Not going to get into it here.
Ok, finally getting back to this
FrumSketpic: About the socialization, it's normal to you because you grew up with it. Until recently I viewed mix socialization as really bad, I didn't see it as normal. So it's relative.
Your right, parents shouldn't choose a guy and make the children marry them, although they could choose a guy and let the child have the option of agreeing yes or no. If a parent would choose for the child it would be a big favor, they would be doing a shadchan's job.
Perhaps your right that people should be able to make decisions, but the decisions are on things that can be ok either way. There's nothing wrong with choosing something you have to choose if it's the right thing.
Ok, your right about the decisions, and letting go.
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